Aquarium Size Advice (probably beaten to death elsewhere)

[CStrickland]

This might help http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=745
The extra foot you get from jumping to a 180 from a 120 is a deal breaker for some fish, but there's always that one fish who is just a little too big for your tank. It's up to you where to draw the line. Check out liveaquaria.com for tank sizes of various animals to get an idea of your limitations, and must-haves.

I agree with timeconsumer on the deep sand bed. If you're thinking of going that way, research it well. It's not a matter of just putting in that much sand, you need layers of gravel or something; idk, seems too easy to screw up when there's easy ways to deal with nitrates. Basically, understand the problem first and the solution second. There are some great posts in the setting up sticky to get your head around the nitrogen cycle. In actual fact, the bacteria can live right underneath each other. So the low oxygen guys hide under the oxygen consumers and eat their poop. That can occur right on the glass if there's not too much water current in a particular spot.

If the rimless, or cube, or trapezoidal tank appeals to you on a visceral level - I'd go for it. Regret is for suckers and you can always make it up to the wife later

 

[kmbyrnes]

As others have said, bigger is better, up to a point.
You need at least 24" front to back, then as long as you feel comfortable with.
It will open your options fish-wise.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I too like the 40b, to me it's the perfect size to have a decent sized tank. Great foot print to be able to have many rock scape options. It's a great first tank for newbies and even for those experienced reefers. I've had many tanks up to 200 gals and liked them all for one reason or another, but those big tanks are much more than I care to take care of. The 40b is easy to maintain and even 20% water changes including my 20 gal sump are only 10 gals every two weeks, so a bucket of salt lasts me a year. You can get a lot of corals in a 40b as well as several fish. I've got 7 in my DT and it's not overcrowded if you get fish that occupy different levels of the water column.

 

[dleute]

I'm a fan of simplicity. Not having a deep sand bed sounds like it simplifies things. I am also a fan of a very large sump giving me a lot of space to do as much filtration as necessary.

On the maintenance front, one reason this project is so crazy expensive is I am a technology guy. Whatever tank it is, I will have an apex tank controller setup to automate just about everything. I am planning a continuos water exchange system integrated similarly to the auto top off (Probably using the DOS system). To the point where all I have to do is mix proper salt water in the source salt reservoir. The RO/DI reservoir will be hooked up to the apex to refill when it gets low. Same thing for the AUTO top off (will probably just pull from the RO/DI reservoir). Depending on where I put the tank, I can put old water right down the drain.

Neat stuff. Definitely part of the excitement for me.

--Derrek

 

[oh207]

The standard 120g is a nice size (48x24x24). However, I have the Aqueon tank that has 2 overflows that are off center (not in the corners). I really hate the position of the overflows. It doesn't allow me to aquascape to my liking. I don't really have much space to work with in front of each overflow and I can't really block up the corners with rock.

Ideally I would prefer the overflows at the corners of the tank, or having just one in the middle.

 

[Shamous113]

Miracles is from Toronto, they do full blown customs but also have standard tanks as well. My dad has one of their standard 125s and it is better than marineland/aqueon etc for fit and finish.

They make a great product IMHO,

 

[dleute]

oh207

I'm actually planning on H2Overflows from custom aquariums (google it. I don't think links are accepted here). Also planning on siphon stoppers from the same company.

I really like them because they physically and visually get out of the way. The only thing I don't like about them is it requires plumbing behind the tank. (unless you use their pvc tower, which to me isn't much better than the mega overflows)

I also have to drill the glass myself. Not a huge fan of that, and obviously the tank can't be tempered either.

--Derrek

 

[JaySchulz]

I'd recommend a ghost overflow over the h20 overflow.

 

[dleute]

JaySchulz: Can you elaborate on why?

 

[toothybugs]

I'll piggyback for the Ghost. I have one in my new 75 and it's impressively sleek against the back wall. What I don't like about the H2Overflow is how it sticks in to the tank. A cool idea, but not one I want in my system. What happens if you bump it while scaping? I see it being a potential lever to break a seal or crack glass.

Also, size: I started with a 40B and loved how easy to set up it was. I could do most of what I wanted to. Only real problem is that it's kind of small so my wife was actually the one who wanted a bigger tank, and pushed me toward a 75 in August. Promptly started a build If I had the choice (apartment for now) I would love a 48x24^2 120 or either a 60x24^2 or 48x30x24 150 as a midsize tank. My big basement system is going to have a 72x30x24 DT with a 48x30x24 fuge.

 

[champion6sigma]

Hey Everyone,

The point of this thread is to get feedback about the pros and cons of different tank sizes in one place. Just a few things to touch upon:

Ease of aquascaping. -
Ease of maintenance. -
Ability to safely house a large variety of fish species. (length to swim, etc)
Appearance (regular rectangle tanks seem a bit dull to me).
Depth vs width vs length to achieve greater water volume.
Practical things like where to put a sump if the stand isn't long enough (think cube tanks).
Stand height.
Rimless vs framed.
Anything else you can think of.

Basically, I'd like to hear the "I wish I had/hadn't gotten X in a tank because of Y" list that people have run into. And I know everyone wants a bigger tank. But why? What dimension would you change first? More length? height? depth? What are the benefits and flaws?

For example: I have been consistently drawn to a 93 Gallon rimless cube (30x30x24). But I don't like the corner overflow. And I wouldn't have room for a sump that I want in the stand. It's also pricier than standard tanks of similar gallon size. On the plus side, having 30 inches of depth for aquascaping seems really intriguing to me. And I just *love* the look of rimless cube tanks.

Thoughts? Why do you like or not like your various tank sizes?

Thanks!

--Derrek

Interesting questions...

Can you post a picture of where this tank will be going and your max width available....

I don't like corner overflows either. Find a manufacturer with a center. They are out there. SC was a brand that came up in a different thread. Having a corner overflow means all the piping is on one side of the tank, one side of the sump...and I would think it would make plumbing a little weird. My tank is center and I like it better for drainage from left right and center towards it.

Cubes are cool. I have one. Sump space is terrible. Working in sump space is terrible, cramped. You say you want all this apex, electronics, etc...prepare yourself for wires and wires and more wires. I have apex too I've got a lot of gadgets, even some I haven't installed yet cause its just so much stuff, I'm out of room.

Unless your room just doesn't allow for a wider tank ...like mine......get a cube if thats the only way to maximize on water capacity...but if this is going against a back wall or has a wall to itself or if you have more space....extend it as wide as possible. Talks of apex and automated water circulation systems for replacement sounds like money is no huge issue. Build a custom tank. I like starfire but how it compares to regular glass...maybe I couldn't tell the difference. The tank size is important in your setup...you sound like you are going to be putting thousands upon thousands...and like a different poster said "regret is for suckers"

I'm not sure what framed tank means? Any rimless tank can get a glass lid or cover installed. If you mean some sort of built in canopy....like red sea or some of your nano tanks...or some colossal wood canopy on some custom built tanks...most of the tanks I've seen nowadays are rimless with optional covers.

As far as sump placement...I can't imagine why you wouldn't put it under the tank unless you have a dedicated sump/fish room either elsewhere in house or lower in basement. Then again....its hard for me to imagine the type of setup you mean if you will have automated containers of RODI/salt etc....that are going to be looped into tank and old water dumped into drain....I've read of some AMAZING setups of people here who do some complex things with fish rooms and things like that....in that case...with planning and money....a sump can surely go anywhere and with some pricey pumps can be flowed back to anywhere too.

Tank size. You want minimum 24 inch length. 30 is nice but should be max, anything more than that and its hard to reach. If you have a 24 to 30 height tank...you will need a step ladder, long arms and be tall to access the back. Width....only limit is your home. Height, I would never go more than 30 unless your housing jellyfish or something.

I like deep sand bed of at least 3/4 inches. I think it helps with the aquarium. There are a lot of benefits to having sand....My tank is 3 - 4. Five or six inches I would say would be max I would go.

 

[champion6sigma]

http://www.scaquariums.com/SCA-150-Gallon-Starfire-Tank-p/sca-150g.htm

 

[champion6sigma]

https://www.cadlights.com/index.php...id=297&zenid=e156a8cba3e758b1ada3ea7fd274712c

 

[KafudaFish]

Here is a crazy idea: buy the 180 but design it as a 120.

You could have 2 rock islands lit by 2 lights and have a nice open tank for swimming fish such as tangs.

Most of the equipment needed for a 120 will work for the 180. You may have to buy an additional powerhead and the next size skimmer but the cost is not too big especially if you don't upgrade in 2 years.

 

[JaySchulz]

JaySchulz: Can you elaborate on why?

-More plumbing options including a full siphon Bean Animal style.

-H20 has less linear inches of overflow. Not too mention the ability to remove the ghost overflow weir and go toothless and increase your skimming ability significantly.

-Ghost overflow is a much sleeker design and only protrudes in inch into your tank. You can turn the h20 overflow so it doesn't protrude as much but then you lose one of longer sides for skimming ability.

-i don't know your tank size and how much turnover you want through your sump so this may not matter but the ghost overflow has the ability to move 2000 gph vs h20 1250 gph

 

[champion6sigma]

Here is a crazy idea: buy the 180 but design it as a 120.

You could have 2 rock islands lit by 2 lights and have a nice open tank for swimming fish such as tangs.

Most of the equipment needed for a 120 will work for the 180. You may have to buy an additional powerhead and the next size skimmer but the cost is not too big especially if you don't upgrade in 2 years.

Theres nothing crazy about going bigger LOL.

The cost of a skimmer price difference between one for 120 vs 180 is like pennies!

Absolutely right, tangs can swim nicely in a 180. There are so many lighting options nowadays....anything can be lit....

I wouldn't let accessories dictate the tank size....the only deciding factor is the space of your home....and its tough to say money as second....cause I've learned in short period of time...that once you get started in this hobby...the amount of money anyone spends, rich or poor, is astronomical. The stuff that goes in the tank, the livestock...costs much more than the equipment. Buy "right" the first time.

Those living in apartments or renting or planning to move within 5 years or less...maybe its different philosophy.

 

[dleute]

champion6sigma - I actually have previously looked at both those tanks. Cad Lights is on my list if I want something "pre-made". I haven't decided yet. SCA I really like the aquariums.

The thing that has really kept me from the pre-made packages is I *like* h2overflow or ghost overflow as a solution. I don't really like corner or back overflows because of the space they steal. Also, at this size it would probably be 2 corner overflows.

I also like SCA's large sumps. They have enough chambers to really make use of them. Many included sumps are just big boxes.

I'm not made of money. But when I decide to do something expensive, I get it done. It might take me months or years to prepare, but it does happen. Currently, I'm still determining what that amount is that I have to spend to not constantly feel like "I should have done X". I'm a firm believer in "regret is for suckers". I'm picking most of my equipment around apex ready capabilities because I'm a software architect. I'm going to be able to do fantastic things with a programmable tank controller.

I can't upload a picture. But there is a treadmill I'm walking on currently (treadmill desk) exactly where the tank will go. It can easily fit a 72" or 84"x24+. I have the room. I just haven't decided I can dedicate that much money to the project.

I don't have basement space, the tank will be on our lower floor of a split level. But this wall is actually containing the closet under the stairs. It could serve as a place to put reservoirs. But, my guess is I won't get away with that because my house is terribly short on closet space (only non-bedroom closet in the entire house).

There is a metal or plastic frame on the top and bottom of any non-rimless tank. Not sure what it's called. Might be "rim"

On the sump, If I do a 48x24x24 (which is possible to get approved by the wife), the sump I was going to use would need 50x18x16. Won't fit below. I can scale down the sump, it was just a bit disappointing.

The RO/DI and salt reservoirs are likely to be large tupper totes (or other liquid friendly large container). Possibly on one or both sides of the stand. Sizing wise, I will probably shoot for 2 weeks of water exchange volume based on 10% tank volume per week. If my tank needs more I will either re-fill more often or size up the containers.

I have spreadsheets for speccing out the costs for different builds. Including builds where I save money and build the stand and sump myself. Or hold off on some apex gadgets until I have maintained the tank myself for a while. Etc.

One of the biggest challenges is we may be moving soon. So I'm debating whether I deliberately wait or assume the move is still a few years off and build the system for my current space.

I find ways.

--Derrek

 

[dleute]

This is actually one of the ways I'm looking at it. The 180 is absolutely amazing. And yes, I could treat it like a 120 for a while. Including buying smaller sump and skimmer which I could then use on a smaller tank (75) later as long as I'm careful with stocking.

It's actually all the Apex stuff that really makes a huge price difference. It cascades to apex friendly power heads, apex friendly lights, apex friendly pumps... etc. All that equals apex sized wallets. ;P Not to mention the apex stuff itself. But That's one of the things I *know* I would regret not doing. So I have to build it in.

Here is a crazy idea: buy the 180 but design it as a 120.

You could have 2 rock islands lit by 2 lights and have a nice open tank for swimming fish such as tangs.

Most of the equipment needed for a 120 will work for the 180. You may have to buy an additional powerhead and the next size skimmer but the cost is not too big especially if you don't upgrade in 2 years.

 

[dleute]

I even looked at building the system I want (tank and sump) but making it freshwater until I move. That eliminates a number of costs right there. Protein Skimmer, power heads, salinity probes, cheaper fish... etc.

I also wouldn't bother with a quarantine tank for that. Further reducing cost. Lights could be much cheaper (not sure I would sacrifice light controllability though)

Like I said, I find ways. And that might be the path to reef keeping for me.

 

[champion6sigma]

champion6sigma - I actually have previously looked at both those tanks. Cad Lights is on my list if I want something "pre-made". I haven't decided yet. SCA I really like the aquariums.

The thing that has really kept me from the pre-made packages is I *like* h2overflow or ghost overflow as a solution. I don't really like corner or back overflows because of the space they steal. Also, at this size it would probably be 2 corner overflows.

I also like SCA's large sumps. They have enough chambers to really make use of them. Many included sumps are just big boxes.

I'm not made of money. But when I decide to do something expensive, I get it done. It might take me months or years to prepare, but it does happen. Currently, I'm still determining what that amount is that I have to spend to not constantly feel like "I should have done X". I'm a firm believer in "regret is for suckers". I'm picking most of my equipment around apex ready capabilities because I'm a software architect. I'm going to be able to do fantastic things with a programmable tank controller.

I can't upload a picture. But there is a treadmill I'm walking on currently (treadmill desk) exactly where the tank will go. It can easily fit a 72" or 84"x24+. I have the room. I just haven't decided I can dedicate that much money to the project.

I don't have basement space, the tank will be on our lower floor of a split level. But this wall is actually containing the closet under the stairs. It could serve as a place to put reservoirs. But, my guess is I won't get away with that because my house is terribly short on closet space (only non-bedroom closet in the entire house).

There is a metal or plastic frame on the top and bottom of any non-rimless tank. Not sure what it's called. Might be "rim"

On the sump, If I do a 48x24x24 (which is possible to get approved by the wife), the sump I was going to use would need 50x18x16. Won't fit below. I can scale down the sump, it was just a bit disappointing.

The RO/DI and salt reservoirs are likely to be large tupper totes (or other liquid friendly large container). Possibly on one or both sides of the stand. Sizing wise, I will probably shoot for 2 weeks of water exchange volume based on 10% tank volume per week. If my tank needs more I will either re-fill more often or size up the containers.

I have spreadsheets for speccing out the costs for different builds. Including builds where I save money and build the stand and sump myself. Or hold off on some apex gadgets until I have maintained the tank myself for a while. Etc.

One of the biggest challenges is we may be moving soon. So I'm debating whether I deliberately wait or assume the move is still a few years off and build the system for my current space.

I find ways.

--Derrek

Not knowing if you are moving soon...that makes things tough.

So on those two overflows...a tank can potentially overflow from main display with ghost or h20? I looked at pictures of both....other than the tiny amount of space a traditional center back overflow takes....what is the benefit? Moreover, if this tank is next to a wall....how do you access the plumbing on the ghost. or other. And it seems that you need a rimmed tank :hmm6: for the h20 ( guess I've never seen one before in person)