Aquarium Temperature

The type locality for R. yuma averages 82 degrees. It's not the intrinsic limit for them. If you lose them or any coral in the hobby at that low of a temp it's because of acclimatization to unnatural temps or overstocking. There are essentially no corals in the hobby that come from water significantly cooler than the "average" reef, including Fiji. The average range of 76-86, centered around 82 is suitable for nearly all corals in the hobby unless you're getting your corals from Central Japan or Central Australia.

While Fiji is on the cool side of average, have a look at the yearly temps there:
watertemp_lrg.gif
 
Hi Greenbean and all,
Nice chart but you must realize that these temperatures are taken close to the surface and really does not relate to where the corals actually grow down deeper. The temperature thing has been a debate for many years and some will swear that 82 is best and they have good success at this range.
If you study your chart you can clearly see our worst bleaching years (and months) pointed out. Fiji had its worst years ever, as far as bleaching is concerned, from 2000 - 2004 from March till June with the hardest hit months April and May.
We are a little worried about next year because the water is already starting to heat up.
If you adjust your chart for about 4 - 6 degrees cooler you will be more actuate where the corals actually grow and thrive.
Also, where these temps are taken is an issue. It is closer to shore where it is expected to be warmer.
However, when I hear people say they have great success at 86 I start to cringe as this is where most corals start to bleach in nature (or at least in Fiji) but Indonesia is a different story with warmer water near the equator and coral there do have a different tolerance but don't push them too much beyond 88 or it's white out time again.
Hope this is viewed as a little info from the field.
Cheers to all,
Walt
 
Dr Shemik says these temperatures relate to the water within the top 100 feet, not just the first few feet. Diving off Cairns in Australia, the temperature was certainly still warm, like the surface, at 30 feet or so where all the coral was.
 
i believe WS is refering to the change in thermocline where corals grow. there is a noticeable thermocline on reefs beginning every 15-30 ft. with sig. drops in temp as you go deeper. And from experience in diving reefs. i would be inclined to agree. albeit with no real scientific background but rather just from what i've seen and felt.
 
The data in the graph are from 30 feet on the reef at 6 different sites in Fiji.

I've done plenty of dives and field work on the reefs in both the Pacific and Caribbean and I've never once felt a thermocline over the reef. The lit pretty much agrees that the thermocline doesn't occur on reefs until at least ~90-150 ft. People have done work all over Australia, the Caribbean, Palau, etc. and they find the same trends. The average temp drops <2 F until the thermocline (>90ft) but variation increases with depth. I have yet to find any reports of significant decreases in temp over the depth corals in the hobby are coming from or see it myself. I'm sure it happens, but I certainly don't have any reason to believe it's widespread.
 
Dear All,
I sure don’t want to make a debate out of this but I must point out a few overlooked facts. First of all there is a world of difference between the Great Barrier Reef tropical waters and Fiji / Tonga sub-tropical waters. Just look at the map and see how high up those areas are compared to Tonga and Fiji. This is the reason I mentioned Indonesia not fitting in to my comments. When the water is as high temp as those areas it will tend to remain that way longer and penetrate deeper. There is no one that can tell me there is no thermal cline in my areas of operation. With over 1,250 hours in the water per year on 200 â€"œ 250 dives (correction snorkel) … yes 5 hours per day 5 -6 days per week I notice plenty of temp differences and just ask my divers who insist on 5mm (3mm in the summer months) wet suits or they will not dive. Now we spend most of the time in the top 20 feet of the reef. Heck sometimes I just go down 5 feet and I can feel the wall of cooler water hit me. Also you must consider the monitoring devices used in the less developed countries and where they place them. We are not as scientific as Australia or the rest of the modern world. I do not say these things to mislead you in any way I am talking from direct experienced and what I have done to monitor our own reefs where we work. This has become especially important to me since 1999 when bleaching became an issue. I know I get to spend less time in the water over the past few years since I spend a lot of time out of the country but my past (since 1989) speaks for itself. I don’t think anyone can say they have logged as many hours in the South Pacific Sub-Tropical climate as me. Frankly I don’t care what temperature works for you and I made that clear on my earlier post as long as it works but I hate to see corals killed just because you choose to believe a theory based on an occasional dive or listening to someone who has never actually been there. Charts can tend to generalize an area but not actually pinpoint a neighborhood such as the reef.
If you think I an full of it that’s fine but my experience tells me the facts as they are on the reefs where your coral is collected for this hobby as far as Fiji and Tonga corals are concerned.
The best to all,
Walt
 
so far as the conversation goes, here's my two bits FWIW: i whole heatedly agree with Walt Smith on the thermocline subject. as a professional diver who's worked all over the tropics, i find they happen to be present more often than not, usually found between 15'-20' mark. when getting into some of the deeper depths it can get downright cold...quite frequently in the low 70's no problem and as much as 10 degree variance.
 
Walt, I really appreciate you posting here. I was concerned about referencing you without prior contact, but I had remembered how passionate a post you had made on another forum was regarding this very topic. It struck me as being reliable and is consistent with what I understand and have experienced.

As a diver myself, (limited to the California coastline and some sierra mtn lakes) I am very aware of the thermoclines you are reffering to. In these regions they are numbing differences in temperature.

back to the original post, I still stand by my original statements about temperature. Stability is critical (a small change of 3 or 4 degrees is fine). Massive temp changes or extreme high temps are dangerous. And yes, I have seen mortalities at as low as 82F.

Ricordea Yumas are known to be very tempermental and this is my observation about what killed mine. This did occur in two different tanks with three nice colonies (from Vietnam) at different times. maybe keeping them at the cooler temps put too much strain on them, and then the higher temp wiped them out, but They had been in my tank for 4 or 5 months when they suddenly died (everything else in the tanks are doing fine.) The only consistent reason I can find is the temperatrure rise.
 
Wait a second, I'm confused (not hard to do by the way ;) ).

On the one hand we are saying stability is crucial, then on the other hand we are saying thermoclines of temps in the 70's are common. Surely that is proof that a variance in reef temperatures is natural and well tolerated by corals. In fact surely this is not a coincidence. Maybe these fluctuations are used by corals to improve health, who knows.

Why then are we striving to change their environment by acclimatising them to a constant temperature, hence increasing their mortality in our tanks if temperatures happen to climb above their artificially stable levels. Surely it makes more sense to let the corals experience fluctuations, similar to what they experience in nature every day. Therefore they will be well equipped to cope with accidental variations should equipment fail.
 
Stability is critical.

Stability is keeping your tank parameters similar from day to day.
four degree or so variance daily. (78F to 81F is what I run).

Keeping your tank 80F constantly with a heater instantly picking up the slack or a chiller set to run at the slightest temp increase is not stability.

Stability helps reduce stress on your corals and prevents temperature related losses of corals. Keeping your tank at a single degree of temperature will leave your corals poorly prepared to survive an accidental temperature fluctuation.

And regarding your observation about the reefs in nature. The variance is almost always on the cooler side. Corals tend to tolerate cold water better than they handle hot water. It usually doesnt hurt the coral to get a cold wash of water, but it does make the coral have to expend precious energy to compensate for the colder temp. Again, its not usually dangerous, but I prefer not to subject my corals to any stresses that I can avoid. I want them to use that energy for growing bigger.

And wild corals die at the same temperature we see most coral mortality at in our tanks. Havent you heard, the reefs are dying? Just because nature is all messed up, doesnt mean I want to copy that.
 
hmm, it seems to me that a huge proportion of reef keepers have a finite budget (including me) and cannot or do not wish to purchase and run a chiller.

Without a chiller most aquariums running MH will easily reach the low 80's, especially in summer months, even with fans. Most, if not all, of these people including me, have no problem running their tanks in the low 80's, with swings from say 78 to 84 common. As greenbean's graph shows, and other evidence I have seen, many reefs are accustomed to these temperatures and swings, and have thrived on these conditions for many a millenium.

Then we buy them, and under pressure from other reefers with either high ideals, wrong information or gadget addictions, wish to subject them to temperatures at the bottom end of their temperature tolerance, and then are surprised when the chiller fails and they see a coral die at an otherwise 'natural' temperature swing.

Not me. I haven't lost a coral to higher temperatures and have seen many swings to 85f.

As for the reefs dying, I would imagine they have been accustomed to a 'base' temperature within which the regular swings occur, for yeons. Now that that base temperature is fairly quickly increasing, something has got to give. Greenbean would know a lot more about this topic than me, but I can't see how it relates to why we should keep our corals constantly 'chilled' at the lower end of their temperature tolerance.

As for nature is 'messed up', global warming is not necessarily a conclusive fact for many. I have a well respected geologist as an Uncle who believes we are going through a perfectly normal co2 'cycle' that has been repeated many times before in history. He believes our carbon emission contribution to this 'cycle' is minimal at best, if not irrelevant. Nature will adjust and then recover I believe, then the cycle will change again, and more reefs will die because the temperatures are too cold lol.. But maybe that topic is for another forum. ;)
 
My stance isn't based on "occasional diving." It's based on doing field work on the reefs everyday for months at a time and the published literature on the subject.

First, I think it's important to define what a thermocline is so we're sure everyone's on the same page since from the sounds of it, we aren't. A thermocline is when a body of water is stratified by temperature and there is a sharp demarcation (of ~10F on the reefs) within a few feet. It happens at >90ft around reefs. Above that the water is said to be "well mixed", but that does not mean that it's a uniform temp or that large, fast changes don't occur there. Leichter wrote about how above the thermocline more than half of the yearly variation can occur in 1-20 minutes (at a fixed point) and then stay that way for up to 4 hours before returning to the original temp in just as little time. This spring when I was working in The Bahamas it wasn't uncommon for the temp to change 4-6 degrees within a few seconds while we were measuring a single coral head. Another guy that was working there logged >10F changes in under 15 minutes on his data loggers. Those changes were large and dramatic, but were not due to thermoclines.

I have no doubt that corals can be killed at 82. It's been replicated not only in the hobby, but in scientific experiments. The key to doing it though was to keep the corals under cool, stable conditions beforehand. Corals kept under "normal" conditions didn't even show metabolic stress up to short term temps around 88.

Maybe these fluctuations are used by corals to improve health, who knows.
It has been shown multiple times that fluctuations are important for the resistance of corals to thermal stress, but still they're regarded as stressful themselves within the hobby. Most papers on the subject make mention of how fluctuations are an important part of maintaining coral and overall reef health.

And wild corals die at the same temperature we see most coral mortality at in our tanks. Havent you heard, the reefs are dying? Just because nature is all messed up, doesnt mean I want to copy that.
There is a problem that with shifting baselines, but when people are writing about the temps on reefs they take precautions not to get "messed up" data. They take measurements for long periods and don't measure during bleaching or otherwise abnormal years. They also try to pick healthy reefs. The data of what's average also predates widespread bleaching events.

Not me. I haven't lost a coral to higher temperatures and have seen many swings to 85f.

As for the reefs dying, I would imagine they have been accustomed to a 'base' temperature within which the regular swings occur, for yeons. Now that that base temperature is fairly quickly increasing, something has got to give.
Right. It isn't increasing temperatures that induce bleaching, but temperatures increasing beyond the norm for the corals. They can be acclimatized to lower temps and then they bleach at lower temps or they can be acclimatized to higher temps and they bleach at higher temps (within limits). Many people run their tanks cool and get into trouble in the low 80s. I run my tank warmer and it's gotten to above 90 once when the a/c went out without any obvious impact (including a few of Walt's corals). The absolute physiological limit for most hard corals is >88 degrees and then it takes a few days at those temps to show signs of stress. Stress below that is usually a result of the coral's history.

No, it doesn't hurt to keep your tank in the 70s if that's where it will naturally go. However, lots of people spend a lot of time, money, and electricity trying to keep their tanks from reaching entirely natural and harmless temperatures in the low to mid 80s. What happens when something goes wrong for them though? Their temp climbs and their corals suffer. On the other hand they could have just let their tank sit at 82 where it naturally wants to be and in the event of a failure, nothing happens.

Most of the livestock in the hobby is still coming from areas that are "average" and that still includes the majority of corals unless the market has really changed in the last few years. There is no reason to try to cater the entire tank to corals from one region when there is no reason they can't do just as well at the temps the rest of the animals are from.

For anyone who wants to investigate reef temps for themselves, here are just a few of the many articles on the subject (in no particular order).

Coles, S.L. and B.E. Brown. 2003. Coral bleaching-capacity for acclimatization and adaptation. Adv. Mar. Biol. 46:183-223.

Kleypas, J. A., J. W. McManus, and L. A. B. Menez. 1999. Environmental Limits to Coral Reef Development: Where Do We Draw The Line? American Zoologist. 39:146- 159.

Wood, R. 1999. Reef Evolution. Oxford University Press. Oxford. 414 pp.

Wolanski, E and G.L. Pickard. 1983. Upwelling by internal tides and Kelvin waves at the continental shelf break on the GBR. Australian J. Mar. Res. 34: 65-80.

Leichter et al. 1996. Pulsed delivery of subthermocline water to Conch Reef (Florida Keys) by internal tidal bores. Limnol. Oceanogr. 41: 1490-1501

Leichter, J.J., B. Helmuth, and A. Fischer. 2006. Variation beneath the surface: quantifying complex thermal environments on coral reefs in the Caribbean, Bahamas, and Florida. J. Mar. Res. 64(4): 563-588.

Castillo, K.D. and B.S.T. Helmuth. 2005. Influence of thermal history on response of Montastraea annularis to short-term temperature exposure. Mar. Biol. 148(2): 261-270.

Quinn, N.J. and B.L. Kojis. 1999. Subsurface seawater temperature variation and the recovery of corals from the 1993 coral bleaching event in waters off St. Thomas, USVI. Bull Mar. Sci 65:201-214.

Hoegh-Guldberg, O. and G.J. Smith. 1989. The effect of sudden changes in temperature, irradiance and salinity on the population density and export of zooxanthellae from the reef corals Stylophora pistillata (Esper 1797)and Seriatopora hystrix (Dana 1846). Exp. Mar. Biol. Ecol. 129:279-303.

West, J.M. and R.V. Salm. 2003. Resistance and resilience to coral bleaching: Implications for coral reef conservation and management. Conserv. Biol. 17:956-967.
 
While might be argumentative from time to time, I'd probably do some research before arguing with greenbean :lol:
 
Again, I want to stress that we need to be a little more specific when describing what corals we are trying to keep.

I used an example of a very sensitve coral that is frequently purchased by new hobbyists. Yuma Ricordea are well regarded for being extremely sensitive to shipping stress and other (currently unknown) factors. I believe from my experience that the temp was the cause of death for mine. This is neither reaserch nor conclusive, purely observation. But I still feel free to share that observed situation with other reefers. Its the only way we can ever come to any reasonable conclusions.

Most corals can survive much higher temperatures, but I would not recommend keeping a tank at those higher temps. If someone does do that, and they have no negative results, good. But I would not want to encourage someone towards what I consider risky reef management.

As for cooling. My tanks stay right around 78-81 all the time. I have two 90 gal tanks with dual 250W halides and a 120 gal with dual 175W halides (and 260W PC). The only cooling I offer them is a small cooling fan for evaporative cooling. I do keep my home at 78F so that also helps. I agree that chillers are an unnecesary burden for most hobbyists to use. Without the fans my tanks would hit 84F pretty regularly. By using the small fans, I see a change of almost 5 degrees. If your tank was running 82F without the fans, why wouldnt you use them to get your temps down to a more 'stable' level? I am not aware of anyone saying that the cooler water (mid 70's) is even potentially dangerous for any of our corals. However, much research has pointed to higher temps (mid 80's) as being dangerous to corals.

Both Greenbean and Mr Smith are both probably able to provide numerous statistics backing up their particular perspective. The real issue is what does their perspective reveal. Are they advocatng keeping corals at temperatures known to be hazardous to the corals? What species are they talking about? What side effects of the warmer or lower temps do they percieve as important?

Figures can be used to mislead very easily. Often it is very important to look carefully at the overall scope of what the references really reveal. I think everyone here wants what is best for our corals (of every type). We must realize that not all corals are alike in their needs and that each tank becomes an ecosystem unto itself and temperature is a critical element of how that ecosystem develops.
 
I think that there are certainly organisms that require lower temperatures. The Catalina goby is one, for example, but I of course avoid these. airinhere has a point, it dosn't hurt to run fans, however, I think people obsess way too much about temperature. In your average temperature controlled house, spending $800 on a chiller, really is not neccessary. Every week there is some thread, where someone is panicing because of a 1 degree temperature change. Even with the most senistive corals this is absurd. I'm not suggesing that people run their tanks 24x7 at 90 degrees, but if your tank shoots up to 86-87 for a day or so, it's probably not the end of the world. People shouldn't be discouraged from the hobby because they can't afford a chiller. As, I mentioned before, with the crazy New England weather latley, my nano tank has been fluctuating like crazy and I am noticing growth in most corals never the less.
 
I have been running temps in the low 80's in the summer time with no ill effect on coras. I am keeping sps some lps and a couple of leathers.

On some rare extreme days the temp has gone up to 85. Usaually the max it goes up to is 83. I try to keep the swings to a minimum.
 
Great post Greenbean ;)

Airinhere, I would agree that deliberately running a reef in the mid 80's could be pushing it a bit, especially if, on a hotter than normal weather spell, temps rise closer to 90. However, if the natural temperatures of a tank involve low to mid 80 temperatures, even with fans, this, as greenbean shows, is also acceptable. Thankfully this seems like a logical solution, and is within the budget and expertise of the average reefer.

However, the drive to 'keep up with the Jones', and purchase and run a chiller, similar to most of the TOTM or larger reef keepers is very tempting. Even I have felt that pressure and considered it seriously. But in reality these reefers usually have a substantial budget and the chiller represents a small proportion of their substantial investment (substantial means) and running costs.

After doing my own research on temps in reef tanks its great to find people like greenbean who can show us that, with the use of fans, we can all keep our reefs in a totally natural temperature range, albeit a bit higher than many realise. This can thankfully be achieved without having to stress our (read mine :) ) marriages and purchase and install a noisy, expensive, heat producing chiller.
 
Agree,

In my opinion, Unless you are running above mid 80's and you cannot get it down with fans I would not get a chiller.

It just seems like such a waste unless you really need it. You have noise, electricity cost, and all that hot air (unless outside) extracted from the water goes back in the house.
 
I just lost a yuma right after a heater malfunctioned and spiked my tank to 84F after running 78F for several weeks.
 
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