Aquatic Showroom in San Jose

From what I hear and from talking to him, he seems approachable and a lot of local reefers respect him as he has many years of experience in the hobby. There could be a good reason why he's keeping them or has a greater plan. I should have asked him when I was there. I recommend talking to him if it gives you peace of mind.
 
I think I'm just gonna shoot him an email.

It sounds like he is a genuinely good person from what everyone who's met him has said.

I understand why he would want sharks in there. Aesthetically I don't think there would have been a better choice than a shark. Now I just want to know what his plans are for the tank, and the sharks, where he got the sharks from, how he feels about them being for sale, and whether or not he knows that they are red listed.

So I think I'll just address those questions in an email to him.
I appreciate everyone who responded to the thread. Even those of you who either do not share my same view, or thought I had the wrong mindset. Thanks for keeping the thread relatively insult free too. I thought for sure it was going to turn into an name calling event and then the thread would have been closed.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13250435#post13250435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scuba71
D to the P.... do you have a mission against the store owner? How many threads do you plan to open to get your point across? Chill man.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13250410#post13250410

Just an FYI, Max has plans for a 20,000 tanks early 2009.
Click to expand...

I hope my concern hasn't come off as being to abrasive. The other thread was simply an invitation to people from the San Jose area, like you, that would have talked directly to Max, or at least have been to his store. I feel that it wouldn't have been much of a discussion here if people who have first hand experiences in the store didn't chime in with their thoughts on the matter. I think this thread would essentially have been a failure if a couple of people from the other side of the country bickered about a LFS they've never been to. Unfortunately in the other thread discussions that would have been more appropriate here arose, but that was never my intention (especially as it has come across that I was trolling). I appreciate you stopping by, and thanks for the information about his plans for the store.
After following the advice of others, I have sent an email to the store. I'm not sure who Stephen is, but it was his email address that was listed on the website, so I figure it'll be him that I get to talk to.
I have seen the pictures of the store, and all I have to say is wow! It really looks like a lot of money and time has gone into the store. And because people like you have assured all the nay sayers like me that Max is a respectable person, hopefully some of the people that were and still are arguing in the ATB thread, and the people who were kind enough to drop by here get some piece of mind.

I hope that you are right about the upgrade to a larger aquarium. And I look forward to a response from the store on the questions and concerns I addressed to them. I'll be sure to post the answers to my questions here. Hopefully this discussion inspires others to question their LFS about some of their decisions. Like the fore mentioned LFS's that definitely don't have plans on upgrading their shark tanks to multiple 10's of thousands.
Thanks for you time.
 
I think this issue is more about the fact that such people are making this pathetic and irresponsible decisions rather than the fact of this shark being endangered and blaming it on this people. The Blacktip is a species plagued by damage in cuisine industries as well as issues with natural habitat. Shiveley you are correct in the fact that most if not all fish issues fall under:

Humans ( Trading, beach nets, overfishing etc.)
Natural Issues ( Still us humans behind it)

Truly only the clownfish is the leader of species being completely destroyed and beaten down by this hobby. Maybe the direction of the discussion should have been more clear.

Someone brought up an issue about betta fish, the thing with bettas are naturally they come from puddles and small pockets of water so those small containers( no right to be called tanks) are mildy ok.
 
precious black tip sharks?

precious black tip sharks?

Finning black tip sharks kills tens of thousands of them every single year in the South Pacific.
Finning...ie. the fishery that catches them, slices off their fins and releases them back into the sea to die slow and unpleasant deaths.

I would imagine that people who actually care about sharks would exhaust their passion in the real front line and have little left over to comment on the really small, token things .

I visited the Aquatic Showroom today and was impressed with the biggest saltwater tank set up I have seen blacktips in outside of public aquariums.
That huge, long, multi thousand gallon tank was in fact such a good habitat that I fear the sharks will grow faster and healthier.

But by then, the super tank will be ready and they will graduate to that.

These sharks may be the luckiest blacktips in the trade and are certainly better off at the Aquatic Showroom then lying on the ocean floor with their fins cut off and having their eyes picked out by crabs.

Big iguanas, big snakes, big sharks in captivity? Not for all thats for sure, but self appointed fish police who do not know anything about the real threats to the species contribute liittle to the discussion.
Steve
 
Shark finning is a disgusting trade. What a horrible fate to meet for such a powerful and beautiful animal as the shark (yes I am well informed on the matter).

There is no question about it that a shark would be better anywhere than in an illegal shark finning boat. I cannot argue at all that any type of fishing (if you can even call shark finning fishing) has much more effect on the populations of shark than a few sharks making it into the trade. Because it's like holding a candle to a XM 10,000K 400 watt HQI.

Thanks for you comment Cortez Marine.

I got exactly what I wanted from this discussion: an open ended debate on whether or not what the Aquatic Showroom (or any LFS that has set ups with similar sharks) was doing was being responsible.
I did send them an email, but the response I got was to give Max a call instead of an email. Because I have had people from the area inform me of his plans for the aquarium, and provide more pictures of it, I haven't found it necessary to spend the money on the long distance phone call to discuss what a guy has in his fish tank.

The debate I suppose is dead but I at least hope some people will start to question the other LFS that have their sharks in worse conditions.

I still hold an opinion on the matter, but because so many reefers from the Bay area were able to find the time to make it in here and defend Max, my opinion has changed a little. In short, I still don't think big sharks like the black tip should be in the aquarium trade (whether display tank or actually for sale), but I can feel happy for the sharks that Max has that they didn't end up in a worse situation.

Thanks for everyone's time.
 
Really? Wow, I would have thought he'd have more important things to do than worry about some guy in PA talking about his fish tank :lol:
Was he really offended, or just excited to talk about it?

Like I said though, I've only heard good things about Max by talking to you guys. I've heard the sharks are going in a bigger tank, and that's probably the most important thing. I still have my opinion about sharks in the aquarium trade, and with that I may drop him a phone call (if long distance isn't charged, I wasn't aware of that), and see how he feels about the situation and some info on the sharks that can be found in the area.

I apologize for my previous comments that came off very harsh. It was ignorant of me to make comments of Max without any prior information of him (such as him being ignorant and such). And again, I appreciate you guys stopping by to comment in the thread. And also for keeping it relatively free of insults/name calling/ and all those other things that get threads closed.

Since there are still people talking about this thread (I assumed it died), let me just ask a few questions to you guys without being judgmental of anyone (what I should have done to start with).

How do you guys feel about large sharks in the aquarium trade?

Where should we draw the line as to what is a good candidate and what isn't for a shark in captivity?

How do you feel about red listed animals being found in captivity IF they are not tank raised (not an assumption of Max's tank, just in general)?

How are the sharks doing at the Aquatic Showroom?

Thanks if you guys answer anything. I'm not going to make a personal attack on anyone if you do, I just want to know how you feel about those questions, that's it.
 
Ideally, it would be nice if sharks didn’t enter the trade. But the reality is, there are a number of animals that are not suitable for the aquarium trade that make it in anyways. If you want to abolish one species, you would sound like a self-righteous hypocrite. I am sure there are some shark lovers out there that think you shouldn’t keep a Yellow Tang, for example. This isn’t a yes or no debate, rather, it’s a debate about the degree to which we THINK animals suffer in our aquariums. We ASSUME that gobies are happy in our tanks and sharks are miserable. I am sure there is some scientific validity to these arguments but this is about degrees, most of which we know little about.

With regard to the comment above by Cortez Marine, I agree with much of what you have to say but to argue that those who know little about “real” threats contribute little to this dialogue is a bit harsh don’t you think? So instead of talking/focusing on sharks in the aquarium trade, we should go after the “real” criminals that are affecting the species? I get that there are “bigger fish to fry” but to imply that folks who aren’t talking about larger threats don’t know what they are talking about is simply untrue. That’s like saying I know nothing about global hunger because I volunteer at a local homeless shelter. If this were a forum on global efforts to save wild species, I’m sure this would come up but this forum is primarily focused on the aquarium trade, species that hobbyists are familiar with and how THIS community can help “save” the sharks. I am sure there are global efforts (albeit somewhat ineffective) that focus on banning the practice of finning. Sure, chastising Max for having a couple of sharks wont change the opinion of many but I don’t think that was the authors original intent. He thought it was a poor judgment on the part of a business owner and wanted to call attention to it. Doesn’t mean he knows little about real threats â€"œ just means he wanted to focus on what LFS owners do.

D to the P â€"œ I respect your opinions and your willingness to be blasted on a public forum. However, I do think that the best plan of attack would have been to contact the owner directly, given that you know admit you really had no idea what he planned on doing with the sharks once they got bigger. That being said, I agree that having sharks probably isn’t the most responsible thing to do but then again, we in this hobby do many irresponsible things, whether we want to admit it or not. The sad reality is that Max has a “reason” to do this (e.g. attracting business). We in the hobby have no other reason to keep tangs other than liking the way they look. I’m not saying one is right and one is wrong, but the point is that we are all guilty, in one way or another, of some degree of irresponsibility towards the ocean.
 
Solitary
I take your comments well and would just like to point out that the scope of our discussion was widened by the reference to refraining from 'redlisted species.'
If people purport to care of the global picture, they may well be open to a wider discussion.
Invoking "redlist poilitics" on local , selectively moral, often anthropomorphic issues invites wider discussion.

I admit to having a knee jerk reaction to what I see is the rise of tokenism in "pop" environmental issues.
This common syndrome threatens to minimize serious problems unless they are popular, charasmatic, cute/cuddly, en vogue and cool.
Serious issues must compete with these 'pop' issues and often do poorly as the need to care gets exhausted to easily in most folks. As a result, scientific environmental issues are diminished.

Perhaps the need to save local aquarium sharks is a micro impulse that needs tolerance and nuturing to grow.
Perhaps its the beginning of consciousness needed to grow into the awareness needed protest the mass commercial slaughter of shark populations .
I just wish that the impulse to care wouldn't end in the shallow comfort zone of canned concern and non action where it counts.
Consciousness does grow in some people from small begginings...and I am perhaps jaded to see that it does not in most people.
Im working now with villagers in S.E Asia who have killed turtles, dugongs, manta rays and sharks all their lives.
Tropical fish is now their alternative. They need to make a living off of something and a little blacktip they can sell alive is worth two dozen dead.
Steve
 
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Thank you both of you for accepting my invitation to discussion and, seemingly, my apologies for how I came off earlier.

I agree that it would be ideal if no sharks made it into the trade, and wouldn't it be even better if only tank raised fish were available to people? The realization of that is pretty intangible when you think of the scope of it unfortunately.
So, is it not right to bring up that the animal is red listed when discussing whether or not it's a responsible decision to put them in the tank?
I mean, of course in the scope of things this guy's, and other such tanks, have really very little to do with the shark populations in the ocean, but is it still not right to stock your tank with a red listed fish (assuming it wasn't tank raised)?

Cortez Marine, I can understand where you are coming from because you get to see things on a global scale on a regular basis. I am on my way to getting my BS in marine biology in a year or so, and my goal is to eventually (because I know jobs are few and far between) get a job working for NMFS or something similar to that. Because I'm interested in fishery conservation, I guess I was trying to bring some of that passion into my hobby. Of course I would rather be on the front line of stopping shark finning boats from Thailand from pulling up their long lines and destroying the sharks, but for now the most I can do is educate myself.

Isn't it crazy though how much more money a ship can make stuffing their freezers full of shark fins compared to actually dragging in the whole shark? It's almost like drug trafficking.
 
Hey guys,
Thanks to both of you for being mature and taking these points of discussion in stride. Everyone that has chosen to discuss this maturely has had made some great points. I would like to think that we all want the same things out of this hobby and conservation but clearly that isnt the case. That being said, I am opptimistic that there will be a point where we will have the technology and know how to have more captive bred animals in our homes. In the meantime, I hope that people are making smart, responsible and sensible decisions about what they decide to keep in thier tanks, even if that means spending a coupld extra bucks on something that is captive bred/propogated/aquacultured.
 
Why wouldn't you want to talk to the store owner? you had no problem making hundreds of assumptions and now he awaits your call.

i haven't seen anybody worry about a long distance call in a long tim...
 
Because I got to talk to plenty of people that gave me the information I was looking for about the situation, and I didn't feel the need to talk about it anymore. I wasn't sure about the long distance, but that's not the reason for not calling.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13246285#post13246285 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BrianD
I would suggest an immediate change in attitude.
Click to expand...
Amen.

D to the P - you are right for raising these issues. Shockingly, there are hobbyists who think people can essentially do no wrong to ocean animals.

Someone call the Tang Police - they're there for a reason. I just hope sharks fall under their jurisdiction too.

Looks like a cool store - I've been diving with blacktips. I've even touched one. But... they have *NO* business in a fish store. It seems like Max is a great guy; he's deeply invested in his business and I'm certain he is as ethical as he feels he can afford to be.

I realize also that those 3 blacktips will be free from finning or other predation. I just agree they are an inappropriate captive species for over 99% of hobbyists. 10k gallons sounds like a lot... unless you're 5 foot long/tall.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with someone asking good questions about these particular animals and finding the thought of their sale/display inappropriate. Are there other battles to fight? Sure, but that's logical fallacy.

LFS owners are good people who are the backbone of the hobby. They should be spoken to about what is perceived appropriate or not, especially for their displays. 10k gallons would make a fantastic aggressive species tank (just not quite as aggressive as those sharks...)

We're all entitled to our opinions. I have great respect for Steve (Cortez Marine), Max, and D to the B.... this is a worthy discussion.

Sadly, LFS'es often have animals that simply don't belong in their own (much less hobbyists') tanks.
 
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Id say for the sake of this thread you should talk to the store owner so he can answer the questions that have been making you have sleepless nights.

Here is my two cents on the subject:

When it comes to keeping exotic animals there has always been the issue of the pot calling the kettle black. One who says it is absolutely horrible to have a black tip shark in an aquarium is usually the same guy who has a tang in their tank. Seriously there are not standards established when it comes to the collection of livestock, so most the aquarium corals that are collected have an adverse effect on the ecosystem. So if this thread is an issue of ethics then I think everyone who has bashed this LFS owner should look into their own tanks and see what black tips they have in there own.

The only thing that is going to save the worlds oceans and its creatures is public awareness. So in a way all LFS are supporting this awareness. I know for myself that going to pet stores in my childhood inspired me, hell I still check the phone book of every new town I visit just to find the pet stores and check em out. This LFS is top notch the pics of his store clearly show a store operated by an informed hobbyist.
 
^^ good take. Everyone's made mistakes - its the only way to learn (one's own, or from others). And there can be a fine line in ethical husbandry, especially considering this LFS owner sounds like a real standup guy.

Somewhere between Sea World orcas and having a single happy, fat, tank bred clownfish in a 500 gallon by itself is the middle.

This store owner sounds much better than the Georgia Aquarium keeping whale sharks. Or failing to.

I just don't think people shouldn't be rude or dismissive of concerns for the well being of sharks in a store. They seem legitimate, if nothing else for informative discussion. I've learned a lot reading this one. Sounds like an interesting store too.
 
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