Are all Zoas toxic?
- Thread starter tenwhiteduke
- Start date
Trottman, I was going to respond to your PM but since you wanted to do this here, we can.
I wasn't making light of anything, quite the opposite. We received multiple complaints from members that the picture was inappropriate.
I have no idea who you are or what you look like and letmegrow's post was not clear in that it was you in the photograph. The sentence reads like he is talking to you not about you.
You yourself never came in here and said anything about the picture until this.
You want your picture back up? Fine. But I suggest you check your attitude at the door.
surfnvb7
Premium Member
how do you know it was palytoxin? did the hospital take a blood sample and send it to a special lab that seperates all the components through HPLC column and then run it through a mass spec?
if so, post the report that says there is a palytoxin molecule in your blood.
if they didnt do that, then you nor the doctor who treated you have any evidence that its specifically palytoxin which caused your symptoms.
Good points!
I also think it's important to take precautions. There are many different things in coral that could potentially bad so caution is always good. But I've yet to see an actuall confirmed cased of palytoxin poisoning from anyone handling zoas. All of the first hand accounts really could have been from a lot of things. Maybe they all inhaled to much super glue and it tasted like pennies in their mouth?
Letmegrow, if you want to direct your anger to someone, then you should send some of them to me, because I was one of those people whom Mhurley spoke of whom was extremely concerned. Unless I missed something that has already been deleted, Mike was just concerned as I and many others were. Before you pull out the 6 shooter, read below.
1. We were discussing a very serious issue, Palytoxins. The discussion was serious without any joking at all.
2. You posted this above a picture of a slumped over young man,
" This is the real life Trottman, I took the picture as a blackmail picture because I thought he was drunk, but when I could not revive him I put the camera down and got worried."
3. That pic looks % 2,000 real, one part of me laughed cause I thought you were joking, but my smile quickly turn to a frown along with many others who have reported this post. We all were just concerned about you posting such a serious photograph of someone's life in jeopardy.
4. I didn't see "LOL" around anything you wrote, therefore we all believe it to be a true real life account of something tragic.
5. This also made many of us very concerned when you posted this below the picture.
"He also has Pericarditis, an inflammation of the sac surrounding the heart as a result of the Palytoxin seizing his heart during the poisoning"
Now we're all concerned. Trottman's profile states that he is 18 years old. Now we are all wondering why you would post this type of tragic incident on a public forum without Trottman's consent somewhere in the context of your post, or, even a quick reply from Trottman to put us all at ease. Just think for a minute before you cut me up.
What you haven't seen is that we were all concerned, not trying to make light of it, but we, ( many of us ) were simply concerned my friend.
Mhurley is 36 according to his profile, possibly a father, can you now appreciate why he did what he did and posted this.
"Is that a picture of someone that is seriously ill or a joke? If it's real, I think it is wholly inappropriate to post"
I think you owe MHurley an apology, a public one. If you want to blame someone, you can PM me and I'll take it.
I along with many others are concerned about what happened and would love for you to share the entire story with us. We can all learn a lot about what lead up to it, how serious was it, what the doctors said, did, how you were treated and how close to death you came.
There are a lot of youngsters on this site, if one of them saw that picture, what do you think went through their young minds?
Man I wish you knew how concerned we all were when we saw this picture. If I publicly offended you, then allow me to be one of those who were concerned, to extend a public apology to you. I was not making light of it nor was Mike. In closing, could you please share with us what happened if you are ok with doing so. Your words could save someone's life or prevent someone from being seriously hurt.
Warm regards, Mucho Reef.
1. We were discussing a very serious issue, Palytoxins. The discussion was serious without any joking at all.
2. You posted this above a picture of a slumped over young man,
" This is the real life Trottman, I took the picture as a blackmail picture because I thought he was drunk, but when I could not revive him I put the camera down and got worried."
3. That pic looks % 2,000 real, one part of me laughed cause I thought you were joking, but my smile quickly turn to a frown along with many others who have reported this post. We all were just concerned about you posting such a serious photograph of someone's life in jeopardy.
4. I didn't see "LOL" around anything you wrote, therefore we all believe it to be a true real life account of something tragic.
5. This also made many of us very concerned when you posted this below the picture.
"He also has Pericarditis, an inflammation of the sac surrounding the heart as a result of the Palytoxin seizing his heart during the poisoning"
Now we're all concerned. Trottman's profile states that he is 18 years old. Now we are all wondering why you would post this type of tragic incident on a public forum without Trottman's consent somewhere in the context of your post, or, even a quick reply from Trottman to put us all at ease. Just think for a minute before you cut me up.
What you haven't seen is that we were all concerned, not trying to make light of it, but we, ( many of us ) were simply concerned my friend.
Mhurley is 36 according to his profile, possibly a father, can you now appreciate why he did what he did and posted this.
"Is that a picture of someone that is seriously ill or a joke? If it's real, I think it is wholly inappropriate to post"
I think you owe MHurley an apology, a public one. If you want to blame someone, you can PM me and I'll take it.
I along with many others are concerned about what happened and would love for you to share the entire story with us. We can all learn a lot about what lead up to it, how serious was it, what the doctors said, did, how you were treated and how close to death you came.
There are a lot of youngsters on this site, if one of them saw that picture, what do you think went through their young minds?
Man I wish you knew how concerned we all were when we saw this picture. If I publicly offended you, then allow me to be one of those who were concerned, to extend a public apology to you. I was not making light of it nor was Mike. In closing, could you please share with us what happened if you are ok with doing so. Your words could save someone's life or prevent someone from being seriously hurt.
Warm regards, Mucho Reef.
Letmegrow
New member
Um, I did not say anything angry Mucho.
All I said was "You have a PM."
I think you need to edit and start off with maybe.... "Trottman".
I sent Mhurley a PM vindicating myself and he can tell everyone what I said in the PM.
I think I deserve an apology.
All I did was save Trottmans life and shared the real life experience with everyone who doubted the Palytoxin did it.
If someone wants to dig up an old thread about Trottmans poisoning they are more than free to.
All I said was "You have a PM."
I think you need to edit and start off with maybe.... "Trottman".
I sent Mhurley a PM vindicating myself and he can tell everyone what I said in the PM.
I think I deserve an apology.
All I did was save Trottmans life and shared the real life experience with everyone who doubted the Palytoxin did it.
If someone wants to dig up an old thread about Trottmans poisoning they are more than free to.
trottman
New member
Well, the story behind the screen is that Letmegrow and I work together. I was looking over his shoulder when he posted it. I am not allowed to get on RC at work so i didn't comment on it.
And as a fact, I Died about 9 times. That is about how many times they lost my pulse. I also lost conciousness, not passing out, but basically being awake without being there if you know what i mean. My eyes were open and all, but no one was home.
Paracarditus is just an inflamation of the heart, could have been caused by any cold, cough, injury, or anything else. It is nothing serious and goes away within 1-2 weeks.
It really isnt a big deal, BECAUSE it is a real serious picture. now that i am alive, it makes for a good story. -- By the way, i did not soil myself in that picture. the spigot to the water bin was knocked open during my convulsions.
--Best treatment for intoxication of palytoxin is to flush the body out. Hoping that you get rid of it. they flushed lots and lots and lots of IV fluid threw me.
And as a fact, I Died about 9 times. That is about how many times they lost my pulse. I also lost conciousness, not passing out, but basically being awake without being there if you know what i mean. My eyes were open and all, but no one was home.
Paracarditus is just an inflamation of the heart, could have been caused by any cold, cough, injury, or anything else. It is nothing serious and goes away within 1-2 weeks.
It really isnt a big deal, BECAUSE it is a real serious picture. now that i am alive, it makes for a good story. -- By the way, i did not soil myself in that picture. the spigot to the water bin was knocked open during my convulsions.
--Best treatment for intoxication of palytoxin is to flush the body out. Hoping that you get rid of it. they flushed lots and lots and lots of IV fluid threw me.
My mistake, got turned around myself, it happens that quickly. I meant to start off by saying Trottman and not you ( LETITGROW, my mistake, sorry.
Thanks guys for helping to clear this up. I really do appreciate how we all handled this, thanks again.
But please share with us how you came to have the palytoxin in your system. Were you fragging, working in your tank etc. If you prefer we dig it up, would it be listed in this forum or somewhere else?
Mucho Reef
PS, thanks for sharing the experience btw.
Thanks guys for helping to clear this up. I really do appreciate how we all handled this, thanks again.
But please share with us how you came to have the palytoxin in your system. Were you fragging, working in your tank etc. If you prefer we dig it up, would it be listed in this forum or somewhere else?
Mucho Reef
PS, thanks for sharing the experience btw.
This would have been a nice piece of information to have between the time I posted my question to the two days that elapsed with no response to it. That is all I ever asked for.
I have no issue with the posting of the picture (other than shock value, I do not see what it adds though). I have issue with it being posted of someone without their permission. Heck, if my teenage (when he gets to that age) son posted a picture of himself like that on the web, I would not be happy. You can post whatever you want I guess, but you should keep in mind the internet is forever and that picture and "drunk" are now associated together...and ultimately Googleable. And while "drunk" may not be the case, it creates an interesting story for an underage kid to have to explain to someone (prospective employers..etc).
Anyway...Mucho's concern was not the only one we received. There were others.
And yes, letmegrow, you sent me a PM but I was working and did not have time to respond to it immediately. In the meantime, I got Trottman's PM and this thread.
So let's just let this thread get back to its' original intent.
Letmegrow
New member
Trottman was fragging Red People Eaters, and was discussing how a RC member "Thatguy" skin peels off if he so much touches a Zoanthid, then ZING !! right in the eye with zoa juice.
12 Hours later he came into work F.U.B.A.R.,
He convulsed passed out, woke up, vomited, repeat ect ect ect.
I called his father, a trauma surgeon, when he said " This isn't right" I called an ambulance. 2 days later 20 liters of IV fluid, 1 stomach pumping and a sigh of relief he is all better.
I did tell the paramedics that it could have been palytoxin, they typed it into a laptop and call forwarded to the hospital to research it in their database.
12 Hours later he came into work F.U.B.A.R.,
He convulsed passed out, woke up, vomited, repeat ect ect ect.
I called his father, a trauma surgeon, when he said " This isn't right" I called an ambulance. 2 days later 20 liters of IV fluid, 1 stomach pumping and a sigh of relief he is all better.
I did tell the paramedics that it could have been palytoxin, they typed it into a laptop and call forwarded to the hospital to research it in their database.
Letmegrow
New member
19 hours to be almost exact.
From contact with eye to him "acting" weird.
From acting "weird" to losing consciousness was under an hour.
From then on it was a bewildered alertness to vomiting to no body is home, repeating for about an hour till paramedics came.
I think because it was intoxication via the eye it took longer than it would have been directly into the blood stream or ingestion.
It is important to point out that he was fragging so the dinos mixed with the saltwater that normally inflates the zoas skin and body cavity, when he applied pressure to the frag it then squirted that concoction into his ocular socket.
Normal squirting of saltwater out of a corals mouth or skin happens all the time, especially to me while fragging. Rarely when fragging does the coral expel zoo juice or goo, well unless I am butchering the colony or abusing it.
From contact with eye to him "acting" weird.
From acting "weird" to losing consciousness was under an hour.
From then on it was a bewildered alertness to vomiting to no body is home, repeating for about an hour till paramedics came.
I think because it was intoxication via the eye it took longer than it would have been directly into the blood stream or ingestion.
It is important to point out that he was fragging so the dinos mixed with the saltwater that normally inflates the zoas skin and body cavity, when he applied pressure to the frag it then squirted that concoction into his ocular socket.
Normal squirting of saltwater out of a corals mouth or skin happens all the time, especially to me while fragging. Rarely when fragging does the coral expel zoo juice or goo, well unless I am butchering the colony or abusing it.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
Letmegrow/trottman (I'll call you a single entity since you work closely together 
), this still doesn't convince me that Palytoxin was truly to blame in this incident. There are too many variables, and without medical record showing that blood samples actually contained PTX, I'm going to chauk this one up to "You never know. Better safe than sorry" category and not "Direct effect of PTX". Believe me, I want to think that it is PTX, but to me it doesn't seem to add up, there are too many other factors, and there isn't any conclusive medical reports to utterly convince me. I'm not asking you to try to convince me or dig up medical reports though. On the other hand, I'm very glad that trottman is okay and that letmegrow was there to act so quickly upon it. :thumbsup:
), this still doesn't convince me that Palytoxin was truly to blame in this incident. There are too many variables, and without medical record showing that blood samples actually contained PTX, I'm going to chauk this one up to "You never know. Better safe than sorry" category and not "Direct effect of PTX". Believe me, I want to think that it is PTX, but to me it doesn't seem to add up, there are too many other factors, and there isn't any conclusive medical reports to utterly convince me. I'm not asking you to try to convince me or dig up medical reports though. On the other hand, I'm very glad that trottman is okay and that letmegrow was there to act so quickly upon it. :thumbsup:I'm also glad he is ok and agree people should be cautious when fragging. I just don't see how this is related to palytoxin at all, or the corals for that matter. Anything I've read about palytoxin says that it reacts very quickly, like within minutes, so after 19 hours before any symptoms kicked in I doubt it had anything to do with the fragging almost a day earlier. I don't even understand why someone would think it was palytoxin or any other coral toxin.
I wish someone would come forward with some medical proof that they have been poisoned by palytoxin. It would be much more helpful than all the speculation from hobbyist on the boards.
I wish someone would come forward with some medical proof that they have been poisoned by palytoxin. It would be much more helpful than all the speculation from hobbyist on the boards.
Travis L. Stevens
Active member
ReefFiend, it still very well could have been PTX. After all, our bodies react in different ways. Trottman might have been poisoned by PTX, but not a dosage to be lethal. But since it entered the eye close to the brain, it could have had effects there that were long and drawn out. Then again, Trottman could have unknowing brushed up against a different coral on a softer spot on his body (IE inside of elbow) and was having reactions from a different toxin. Heck, it might not have been coral related. But like I said before, even though I'm not convinced, for those that are, it is a lesson learned and should be taken seriously.
