I am certain you know why I asked the question, so I won't push it, but I would if at all possible get an RODI unit and make my own water...minimally.
Are my Clowns Sick?
- Thread starter AT_Hiker
- Start date
I am certain you know why I asked the question, so I won't push it, but I would if at all possible get an RODI unit and make my own water...minimally.
AT_Hiker
Member
Unfortunately I just don't have room to make my own water. Wish I did.
saywhatnowfish
New member
its stress Ich. meaning when you got him he had it, but was strong enough with a good slime coat to beat it off. just like Marine fish in the wild do everyday. But with a move, new place, meds, then the water change that caused the swing equals stress Ich. its common. i studied it in college. also some people wake up and turn on their lights and their fish is covered in Ich. but by mid day its gone. some fish stress out with sudden light changes, stress out, Ich. then they calm down and fend the Ich off by the day. i always recommend ramp up and down lights, besides, seeing fish behaviors at dusk and dawn times is fascinating.
i would recommend slowly raising the temperature to 86 degrees. Ich can't reproduce at those temps. i wouldn't do copper because some Ich is resistant. do the high temp for 4-7 days, watch your fish that temperature is stressful for some. if he can handle it then you could effectively eliminate the Ich.
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i would recommend slowly raising the temperature to 86 degrees. Ich can't reproduce at those temps. i wouldn't do copper because some Ich is resistant. do the high temp for 4-7 days, watch your fish that temperature is stressful for some. if he can handle it then you could effectively eliminate the Ich.
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saywhatnowfish
New member
oh if you do the raised temp add another airstone or something for oxygen. warm temp means less dissolved oxygen for your fish.
There is a ton of good info on treating ich in the forums. The stickies I've read always said NOT to raise the temp because the ich will not die off but just goto in a submissive state and it will just prolong the problem. Hyposalinity and copper seemed to be the only consistent true forms of treating ich. I urge you check the forum section about fish disease and treatment as there is a wealth of knowledge there.
saywhatnowfish
New member
Ich at 86 degrees speeds up their life cycle and in a shallow QT tank then the Ich has nothing to produce on, thus quickly riding the tank of the issue in a shorter time. there is copper/cupramine resistant Ich, rare but there.
saywhatnowfish
New member
truly i wish you the best. I've read, seen, heard Ich surviving and appearing out of no where. they can be killers or just here and there no big problem.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
I don't know where you're getting your info; but just about everything in your post is completely wrong. "Stress Ich"????
To the OP: I'd post your problem in the fish disease section of the forum and read the ich stickies at the top of that forum section.
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saywhatnowfish
New member
can i ask why you claim it is wrong. Ich is opportunistic. stress fish mean sopportunity.
op: read the stickired and post. you'll get mixed answers and experiments and I've done this and it works and so on and so fourth generally why i avoid forums, but you'll find something that works.
i just needed help stocking a small tank so i ventured to forums and wandered over here . since I've never worked with a saltwaterr tank smaller than 8,000 gallons i needed advice. good luck to you.
op: read the stickired and post. you'll get mixed answers and experiments and I've done this and it works and so on and so fourth generally why i avoid forums, but you'll find something that works.
i just needed help stocking a small tank so i ventured to forums and wandered over here . since I've never worked with a saltwaterr tank smaller than 8,000 gallons i needed advice. good luck to you.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
DP, sorry.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
can i ask why you claim it is wrong. Ich is opportunistic. stress fish mean sopportunity.
op: read the stickired and post. you'll get mixed answers and experiments and I've done this and it works and so on and so fourth generally why i avoid forums, but you'll find something that works.
Sure, stress can trigger ich, but not forever.
1.) Ich in the ocean does not present the numbers that would badly affect any fish, regardless of slime coat.
2.) Some fish can avoid ich, even become immune (to some strains) for a while. But, if ich is in a tank, it will infest all fish sooner or later.
3.) If ich appears in the AM and disappears hours later; it is not ich.
4.) There is no such thing as "stress ich". See #2.
5.) Higher temps do no nothing for marine ich. Even if it did, 86 degrees isn't going to stress fish. Ocean reefs can often reach this temp.
6.) Fish cannot "fend off" ich once its in the fish and feeding. Ich that has entered the fish doesn't care what time it is or what "stress' factors are present. It will continue feeding.
7.) Ich does not appear out of nowhere. It must be feeding on fish or perish. Sometimes, under some conditions, ich may not be visible. But its still there; either in mother cysts or in the gills.
8.) I know of no evidence (other than occasional anecdotal reports) that any ich is resistant to copper. However, some ich life stages occasionally outlast the copper treatment. Copper only kills in the free-swimming stages and some ich just outlast a normal treatment period.
9.) Ich does not need anything to "reproduce on"; the cysts can simply lay on the bottom or attach to filter media.
saywhatnowfish
New member
Thank you Mr.Tusk for responding, and sorry to the original poster for the side track.
Ich in the ocean is still there and can infect fish, esp if the fish is damaged, dying, sick in some other way and hasn't been picked off by predators.
Other than that 3 is being studied, slide testing has confirmed that the ich is there in the morning but not longer there after a few hours, when is has also not been seen before the lights have been turned on. It's not an experiment we've been able to get a control set up and test set up done properly.So yes its here say, and corresponds with your 2. that its in the tank and happen to flourish then.
As for the temperature, you are correct. That was my mistake! Fresh water and salt water are different. Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is affected by the temperature change, not Crytocaryon irritans. Dr. Ruth would berate me for making that mistake! I confused myself, apologies.
Also in 6 there is a period when fish do fend them off as long as they are not burrowed, how ever small the window. And appearing out of no where, i meant by that is that some people QT, shallow, do copper, formalin, etc for months and still get an ich outbreak and aren't sure where it came from 'out of no where'. Like you said if its not visible doesnt mean its not there, but still when copper, formalin, and no substrate or what not to allow the ich to complete its life cycle is done for months but still the fish breaks out, thats what i meant by 'out of no where'. And of course if the ich is attached to the media or sitting in the bottom, still one would thinks months or 72 days would still be enough for them to become free swimming thus allowing the copper and formalin to do its job. So there is some assumption that some might just be copper resistant. I wish i could study Ich in a more controlled environment better, but my higher ups want to focus on other things right now.:rolleye1:
Anyways sorry about the babble, thank you again Tusk for responding and pointing out where i made my mistake :facepalm:
Ich in the ocean is still there and can infect fish, esp if the fish is damaged, dying, sick in some other way and hasn't been picked off by predators.
Other than that 3 is being studied, slide testing has confirmed that the ich is there in the morning but not longer there after a few hours, when is has also not been seen before the lights have been turned on. It's not an experiment we've been able to get a control set up and test set up done properly.So yes its here say, and corresponds with your 2. that its in the tank and happen to flourish then.
As for the temperature, you are correct. That was my mistake! Fresh water and salt water are different. Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is affected by the temperature change, not Crytocaryon irritans. Dr. Ruth would berate me for making that mistake! I confused myself, apologies.
Also in 6 there is a period when fish do fend them off as long as they are not burrowed, how ever small the window. And appearing out of no where, i meant by that is that some people QT, shallow, do copper, formalin, etc for months and still get an ich outbreak and aren't sure where it came from 'out of no where'. Like you said if its not visible doesnt mean its not there, but still when copper, formalin, and no substrate or what not to allow the ich to complete its life cycle is done for months but still the fish breaks out, thats what i meant by 'out of no where'. And of course if the ich is attached to the media or sitting in the bottom, still one would thinks months or 72 days would still be enough for them to become free swimming thus allowing the copper and formalin to do its job. So there is some assumption that some might just be copper resistant. I wish i could study Ich in a more controlled environment better, but my higher ups want to focus on other things right now.:rolleye1:
Anyways sorry about the babble, thank you again Tusk for responding and pointing out where i made my mistake :facepalm:
+100 on everything except anecdotal reports for copper resistant cryptocaryon. See below:
btw, I don't think, yet, that this is one of those cases. I think it is cryptocaryon and the op is being reinfected by the water from same vendor that sold him/her the fish:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/newich.htm
MrTuskfish
Team RC
This piece has been around a while. Its shown up on our RC forums several times. The owner of National Fish Pharmaceuticals seems to be the source and he sells quinine sulfate. The Ask.com piece even includes a link to the NFP site. I do little, if any, real research anymore; but I've never seen any other source for the "copper resistant" strain of ich. I don't know if the NFP article is real science or just an ad. I noted that the piece was about 6 years old, and while its possible, I really doubt that this info would be ignored if it were legit. QS will possibly cure ich; but its very hard to keep in suspension and you can can't test for it. I think QS is a generic compound and the "big" companies (SeaChem, Purigen< etc.) could be making/buying the stuff and marketing through the big fish supply dealers. They aren't. So for now, I think the Ask.com piece is more free advertising that anything else.
I just don't know what to make of the info; but the fact that the article has been around and just not made any waves makes some sort of statement. There is constant interest in any research on CI (ich). Also, there is no real science in the Ask.com piece; just info from the vendor selling the cure. But who knows? I'm trying not to dispute anything, just my opinion on NFP and this article.
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