Ats
- Thread starter Flatlander
- Start date
Flatlander
Premium Member
Agu
Premium Member
I recently got a call from a local college regarding their skimmer, the person maintaining the tank wasn't sure it was working properly. It was an Oceanic 75 reef, lightly stocked, with an ATS. The skimmer in question was an amiricle cc that hadn't had the skimmer cup emptied in 1.5 years. The airstone was only extended 1" into the water column 
. So essentially the ATS was the only mechanical filtration. Although the tank was mediocre, what struck me was the health of three organisms. A green open brain that was easily 12" across, an anemone I couldn't identify that had moved to directly under the surge and looked great, and a flame scallop that was absolutely gorgeous. The scallop had been in the tank when the current caretaker took over the tank 1.5 years ago!! I have to suspect the ATS had something to do with the scallops health in spite of their known difficulty.
fwiw,
Agu
. So essentially the ATS was the only mechanical filtration. Although the tank was mediocre, what struck me was the health of three organisms. A green open brain that was easily 12" across, an anemone I couldn't identify that had moved to directly under the surge and looked great, and a flame scallop that was absolutely gorgeous. The scallop had been in the tank when the current caretaker took over the tank 1.5 years ago!! I have to suspect the ATS had something to do with the scallops health in spite of their known difficulty.fwiw,
Agu
LiquidShaneo
Reefer
Doug: How much does that ATS250 weigh when running? That looks seriously kewl. I can't wait for you to get that thing up and running. 
Eric: What volume of food were you feeding per time you fed your tank when you were feeding heavy?
Mark: How's the seed screen coming along on your ATS100?
Thanks!
Shane
(aka "liquid")
Eric: What volume of food were you feeding per time you fed your tank when you were feeding heavy?
Mark: How's the seed screen coming along on your ATS100?
Thanks!
Shane
(aka "liquid")
LiquidShaneo
Reefer
FWIW, hair algae (i.e. Bryopsis) is one of the turf algaes that Adey lists will grow in his ATS according to his patents (which I'm reading thru this week -- all 5 of them).
Oh, in case any of you would like to read any of Adey's patents:
here's how to do it. BTW...this method will show you the full scanned in patent and not the cheezy HTML patent text only.
First off, go to: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html and click on "How to Access Full-Page Images" which will take you to: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/images.htm There it explains how to view images in your browser as the full patents are scanned in in TIFF format using CCITT Group 4 compression which IE does not support without a specific browser plugin. To view the scanned in patents, you will need to install the AlternaTIFF IE plugin for your particular version of IE: http://www.alternatiff.com/. When I installed AlternaTIFF, I had to check the box during the install to have it modify my Windows Registry to make it work properly otherwise it didn't work. Depending on your version of IE, you may have to select a specific version of AlternaTIFF.
Once you have AlternaTIFF installed, go back to http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html and click on "Patent Number Search". Next, enter a patent number you want to view (such as 4,333,263). Once the search function finds the patent, click on the linked patent number which will take you to the html patent text. Now for the meat and potatoes option...
Up at the top of the page, there are a bunch of different buttons in blue. One of those buttons says "IMAGES". Click it. Now you have the full patent at your finger tips. The down side is you cannot save the entire patent at once. You have to save each page individually in .tif format. To scan thru all of the pages, on the left hand side of the page are some yellow arrows. Use the arrows to page thru the patent.
To view the .tif's I used Paint Shop Pro v.5. I'm sure there are plenty of graphics programs out there that will view .tif's, so choose your favorite program and have fun.
Have fun!
Shane
(aka "liquid")
Oh, in case any of you would like to read any of Adey's patents:
- 4,333,263
4,966,096
5,097,795
5,851,398
5,715,774
here's how to do it. BTW...this method will show you the full scanned in patent and not the cheezy HTML patent text only.
First off, go to: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html and click on "How to Access Full-Page Images" which will take you to: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/images.htm There it explains how to view images in your browser as the full patents are scanned in in TIFF format using CCITT Group 4 compression which IE does not support without a specific browser plugin. To view the scanned in patents, you will need to install the AlternaTIFF IE plugin for your particular version of IE: http://www.alternatiff.com/. When I installed AlternaTIFF, I had to check the box during the install to have it modify my Windows Registry to make it work properly otherwise it didn't work. Depending on your version of IE, you may have to select a specific version of AlternaTIFF.
Once you have AlternaTIFF installed, go back to http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html and click on "Patent Number Search". Next, enter a patent number you want to view (such as 4,333,263). Once the search function finds the patent, click on the linked patent number which will take you to the html patent text. Now for the meat and potatoes option...
Up at the top of the page, there are a bunch of different buttons in blue. One of those buttons says "IMAGES". Click it. Now you have the full patent at your finger tips.
The down side is you cannot save the entire patent at once. You have to save each page individually in .tif format. To scan thru all of the pages, on the left hand side of the page are some yellow arrows. Use the arrows to page thru the patent.To view the .tif's I used Paint Shop Pro v.5. I'm sure there are plenty of graphics programs out there that will view .tif's, so choose your favorite program and have fun.
Have fun!
Shane
(aka "liquid")
Last edited:
piercho
New member
Hate to ask the NUB questions but...
Hate to ask the NUB questions but...
I'd like to get a better handle on what you guys are kicking around here.
First, the real newbie question: In referene to E. Borneman's article on algae turf scrubbers, what is the article name an what does the anacronism "TFH" stand for?
Second, can anyone recommend W. Adey's book "Dynamic Aquaria" as a good reference for the home aquarist, or is this more of an academic work?
E. Borneman: Does the ATS do anything to remove the toxins produced by some coral and plants that you talk about in your (excellent) book "Aquarium Corals"? How does it compare to a long-contact CC skimmer for this, or is dilution the only real solution?
Mark: what is that material that you have your algae mat tied to and where did you get it?
Thanks.
Hate to ask the NUB questions but...
I'd like to get a better handle on what you guys are kicking around here.
First, the real newbie question: In referene to E. Borneman's article on algae turf scrubbers, what is the article name an what does the anacronism "TFH" stand for?
Second, can anyone recommend W. Adey's book "Dynamic Aquaria" as a good reference for the home aquarist, or is this more of an academic work?
E. Borneman: Does the ATS do anything to remove the toxins produced by some coral and plants that you talk about in your (excellent) book "Aquarium Corals"? How does it compare to a long-contact CC skimmer for this, or is dilution the only real solution?
Mark: what is that material that you have your algae mat tied to and where did you get it?
Thanks.
Mark
Premium Member
TFH stands for Tropical Fish Hobbyist, which is an aquarium hobby magazine. The month and year of the magazine which the article is published in is listed above.
Dynamic Aquaria is IMHO a book that should belong in each aquarist's library. Even if one doesn't ever use an Algae Turf Scrubber, the book offers a good introduction into ecosystem dynamics, trophic structures, and other important biological concepts. More importantly, he explains how these concepts apply or play out within a captive system, such as an aquarium.
I'm not sure how much Eric has looked into the efficiency of an ATS or skimmer in terms of removing toxic compounds, but he did mention in his article that he had success growing Acropora and other 'sps' corals in close proximity to Softies. So one could presume these toxins are being taken care of somewhere, or perhaps the softies became accustomed to the presence of other stonies and reduced the amount of these compounds produced. I'll let Eric elaborate here since it was his tank.
As for the turf screen, it appears to be a plastic mat with holes in it. Kinda like plastic window screening, except the size of these holes wouldn't keep any bugs out. there are two layers of this material. HTH
Shane,
Thanks for the links.
Dynamic Aquaria is IMHO a book that should belong in each aquarist's library. Even if one doesn't ever use an Algae Turf Scrubber, the book offers a good introduction into ecosystem dynamics, trophic structures, and other important biological concepts. More importantly, he explains how these concepts apply or play out within a captive system, such as an aquarium.
I'm not sure how much Eric has looked into the efficiency of an ATS or skimmer in terms of removing toxic compounds, but he did mention in his article that he had success growing Acropora and other 'sps' corals in close proximity to Softies. So one could presume these toxins are being taken care of somewhere, or perhaps the softies became accustomed to the presence of other stonies and reduced the amount of these compounds produced. I'll let Eric elaborate here since it was his tank.
As for the turf screen, it appears to be a plastic mat with holes in it. Kinda like plastic window screening, except the size of these holes wouldn't keep any bugs out.
there are two layers of this material. HTHShane,
Thanks for the links.
piercho
New member
Volume and number of that TFA article?
Volume and number of that TFA article?
Can anyone provide tha volume and number of the TFA article by Eric? Also, the article title would be very helpful. I'm having to go to the UW periodical desk to get this sent to my and their on-line catalog is not too helpful for periodicals.
Thanks.
Volume and number of that TFA article?
Can anyone provide tha volume and number of the TFA article by Eric? Also, the article title would be very helpful. I'm having to go to the UW periodical desk to get this sent to my and their on-line catalog is not too helpful for periodicals.
Thanks.
LiquidShaneo
Reefer
piercho: No idea. All I know is that it's in The Fish Hobbyist, March, 2000. Title: ATS in Action: One Year with an Algae Turf Scubber by Eric Borneman.
FYI: not sure if everyone's seen this or not but this is the webpage for Adey at the Smithsonian: http://www.apapets.com/MarineEcosystem/index.html
Shane
(aka "liquid")
FYI: not sure if everyone's seen this or not but this is the webpage for Adey at the Smithsonian: http://www.apapets.com/MarineEcosystem/index.html
Shane
(aka "liquid")
Flatlander
Premium Member
Shane, not sure what the operational weight will be, but its pretty heavy. Shipping weight was almost 50lbs.
LiquidShaneo
Reefer
Hey Eric, why did you remove your ATS from your 40 gal tank anyhow?
Shane
Shane
It reads Volume XLVIII Number 7 #528
Shane, I took it down because it was during a period where I had at least two tanks in every room of the house and taking care fo them all was driving me batty - couldn't enjoy any of them, and the system itself was (intentionally) a hodge podge of life. I combined systems and gave away a lot of stuff. I put the ATS back onto another tank later, but only because it was a holding tank that held remnants from my 1999 tank disasters while in Australia...that tank had no real purpose, and unfortunately because this was when the ATS was working at its best. I lost the motivation to do a new type habitat, and just took it down until I decided to set up something where I could again use it. I guess the reason I haven;t is because it isn;t a large unit and I don;t really want to run a smallish tank anymore. Couple this with the fact that I am really rather fond of just running a closed system without any "filtration" - to me, its just another thing to mess with and my water quality is already very high without it or skimmers or anything, so the question for me becomes, what, where, when and ...why?
Shane, I took it down because it was during a period where I had at least two tanks in every room of the house and taking care fo them all was driving me batty - couldn't enjoy any of them, and the system itself was (intentionally) a hodge podge of life. I combined systems and gave away a lot of stuff. I put the ATS back onto another tank later, but only because it was a holding tank that held remnants from my 1999 tank disasters while in Australia...that tank had no real purpose, and unfortunately because this was when the ATS was working at its best. I lost the motivation to do a new type habitat, and just took it down until I decided to set up something where I could again use it. I guess the reason I haven;t is because it isn;t a large unit and I don;t really want to run a smallish tank anymore. Couple this with the fact that I am really rather fond of just running a closed system without any "filtration" - to me, its just another thing to mess with and my water quality is already very high without it or skimmers or anything, so the question for me becomes, what, where, when and ...why?
piercho
New member
Couldn't find Eric's Article
Couldn't find Eric's Article
I've been unable to hunt down Eric's article in the Seattle Area - that includes the U of W library. Any help would be appreciated.
I'm putting a surge on my tank and I'd like to incorporate an ATS in the design. The surge will dump into the ATS, then flow into the main tank. I have a few questions I hope you quys will be kind enough to answer.
1)Is 6500k PC at about 5" from the algae screen adequit intensity to support growth of the desired type of algaes?
2)Is there a rule of thumb relating tank load or tank volume to the area of screen needed?
3)Is there a rule of thumb for frequency of surges to optimize ATS performance?
4)Is the screen suppose to be in air between surges, or remain submerged?
Right now I'm planning to put a 32W PC over a 18G tub with a 18"X 12" ATS in it. 3.5G surges will pass through the tub every 30 seconds. This will help support a 65G main tank with a DSB. I'm trying to avoid a skimmer on this "lagoonal" system, but I haven't been able to get control over my nitrogen (and DOM, in general) so far with just the DSB. It is a new system.
Any input would be appreciated.
Couldn't find Eric's Article
I've been unable to hunt down Eric's article in the Seattle Area - that includes the U of W library. Any help would be appreciated.
I'm putting a surge on my tank and I'd like to incorporate an ATS in the design. The surge will dump into the ATS, then flow into the main tank. I have a few questions I hope you quys will be kind enough to answer.
1)Is 6500k PC at about 5" from the algae screen adequit intensity to support growth of the desired type of algaes?
2)Is there a rule of thumb relating tank load or tank volume to the area of screen needed?
3)Is there a rule of thumb for frequency of surges to optimize ATS performance?
4)Is the screen suppose to be in air between surges, or remain submerged?
Right now I'm planning to put a 32W PC over a 18G tub with a 18"X 12" ATS in it. 3.5G surges will pass through the tub every 30 seconds. This will help support a 65G main tank with a DSB. I'm trying to avoid a skimmer on this "lagoonal" system, but I haven't been able to get control over my nitrogen (and DOM, in general) so far with just the DSB. It is a new system.
Any input would be appreciated.
piercho,
A colour temperature of around 4000K is better suited to promoting algal growth in a scrubber.
I currently use 4000k 175w MH bulb over my scrubber. Also from my readings higher intensity light is important. Remember you are trying to create an optimal environment for growing algae, and encouraging it to grow on the scrubber rather than in your tank.
"Dynamic Aquaria" give a rough guide as to the scrubber area to tank volume. From memory he as an 0.18m sq (metric) for his 120g home reef. I use a 18 inch by 10 inch mat for my 50g tank.
I do not think contact with air is important, though my scrubber is a dump bucket design there is alway a small amount of water covering the algae. What is of greater importance is getting the to and fro movement of the algae
A colour temperature of around 4000K is better suited to promoting algal growth in a scrubber.
I currently use 4000k 175w MH bulb over my scrubber. Also from my readings higher intensity light is important. Remember you are trying to create an optimal environment for growing algae, and encouraging it to grow on the scrubber rather than in your tank.
"Dynamic Aquaria" give a rough guide as to the scrubber area to tank volume. From memory he as an 0.18m sq (metric) for his 120g home reef. I use a 18 inch by 10 inch mat for my 50g tank.
I do not think contact with air is important, though my scrubber is a dump bucket design there is alway a small amount of water covering the algae. What is of greater importance is getting the to and fro movement of the algae
Size was my bigest question. The InlandAquatics units used 1 square inch per gallon of tank size (100 & 250 gal units). www.algaeturfscrubber.com uses 1.4 sq in/gal in the small unit(90 gal), .69 sq in/gal in the mid unit (400 gal) and .56 sq in/gal in the big unit (3000 gal). this all makes it about as clear as Dynamic Aquaria. 
