Attempt to color up SPS under LED

[CHSUB]

i think you will find better success with heavy feeding and low nutrients. i would feed 3-4 times a day. from the pic it appears only the purple acro w/ green tips has a chance(not including the birdnest). i'm not a LED guy anyone, but success is possible. imo LEDs makes it harder....GL

 

[Posseidon]

I hope to revive all of them

I don't mind heavy feeding. I'm just scared of GHA or Cyano breakout that I recently fought. I've managed to keep them in check for now. With heavy feeding, I hope they don't get to the nutrients before zoox.

 

[Posseidon]

Should I lower the intensity of main lights when I add the supplementary lights? Or not?

 

[Posseidon]

I thought I may find a lot of help from RC to setup my LED. :sad1:

 

[behlke]

You need to ask the people in the DIY forum about your LED setup. That is where the people with the knowledge to help you reside on RC.

 

[jda]

Those who've managed to keep colorful SPS, please share your PAR levels.

I can have good success from anywhere from 250 in the sand to over 800-900 up top with multiple HQI fixtures. I have grown SPS very well in the summer months under the sun when I lived in Kansas City with PAR well over 1300. IME, there is no upper limit that we can provide artificially if the spectrum is good.

PAR is not even the most important factor, though. Spectrum is more important. PAR is the measure of radiation from 400-700, but not all of this spectrum is important most SPS and excess in some of it can cause damage. PUR (usable radiation) is a better indicator, but harder to measure.

{ "over_generalization" : "It is hard to have a really good SPS discussion about LEDs. Most of the hard core, long time SPS'ers will not touch them, and most don't post much anyway. The ones use LEDs over their SPS tanks oftentimes are newer to the hobby and lack the depth and breath of knowledge to really help out in any meaningful way. If you want to be a hard-core SPS person, then your online experience will likely be through PMs, shows, conferences, face-to-face and email." }

Most importantly, frags are hard. When you have some 3-4" colonies, then they are more reliable to work out kinks in changes and stuff. If your SPS tank is spot-on, you will have 3-4" colonies of some stuff in 6-8 months - some will be larger and some will be smaller. Colonies are less likely to provide false positives and false negatives.

 

[Posseidon]

You need to ask the people in the DIY forum about your LED setup. That is where the people with the knowledge to help you reside on RC.

But I don't want to discuss the build. I've already done that. I need to use the LEDs in the right way to improve SPS coloration.

 

[Posseidon]

Thanks JDA. When you put it like that, it all makes sense. Very insightful and informative. Appreciate it.

Yes, I think you got that right. I think most of the experienced SPS keepers are using MH.
LEDs are fairly new in the hobby and definitely an aquarist having SPS for years would not risk the change. Very few have tried though. So, that leaves majority of LED users as newbies... I knew these bits of info, but never put them up together in this perspective. Thanks for that.

Well, I guess I'll be on my own for most of it then. I do a lot of reading though. Anyways, I'll keep this thread active with updates. Who knows what change might make the difference.

However, I did see some amazing SPS tanks with some of RC members that are on LEDs for years. These tanks always give me hope and is why I haven't quit on LEDs. But then, they are not as simple to implement like other light sources.

Those are quite high PAR values you got there. So, I think I shouldn't blame the light intensity of my tank yet (I don't have a PAR meter now, but I'm sure it isn't that high). I'll get a PAR meter shortly and will post the values.

So, if I safely ignore the intensity, the problems could be else where. So, far I've come up with three possible reasons:

1) Missing Spectrum
- To tackle this, I've build custom LED bars that cover the missing spectrums. I plan to run these supplementary lights across the entire length of the tank and add them in addition to my main lights. Hopefully, I'll set it up this weekend.

2) Missing Nutrients
- My tank is ULNS. I've been feeding decently but the Acro got pale. I'll still try to feed more heavily and observe.
- I'm considering usage of Reef Plus to add some good nutrients to water column or even Coral Food. Please share your experience with this product.

3) Low Alkalinity
- I did post my value on my first post. But no one seems to consider that as an issue. Well, 6 is not too low from ocean levels but way too low from the levels that reefers maintain in their tanks. Could this also cause Acros to pale? I plan on using Reef Builder to up the Alk. I think I'll increase it to 8. Please let me know if you've noticed better health in a specific range.

 

[jda]

You might also add:
Too much of the wrong kind of spectrum as #4. If you have much of the typical white LEDs, you could be blasting the SPS with too much yellow, green and red.

I keep my alk at 9-10, but I don't get too concerned with ULNS... I let the Sandbed handle the nitrate and phosphate and both consistently test out "clear" on Salifert with no nuisance algae that the emeralds and snails cannot handle. ...the skimmer and coral take their part and the bacteria get to equilibrium on the rest.

Those are just frags. They don't even look encrusted yet. Give them some time before you do anything too crazy. They will grow quite fast if you are any good at this - I recently moved and started over with frags. For example, I got a Red Planet the size of a cheddar goldfish cracker in about February and it is the size of a normal sized cereal bowl 6 months later (about 6" across and 2.5" tall). I got a 1" frag of cali tort (the original ORA one) that is now 8" tall and 3-4" across. My RR multicolored matrix was the size of a M&M and now the size of a golf ball (pretty good for this coral). Anyway, have some patience with the SPS.

I have seen hundreds of high-end SPS tanks all across the nation and I have yet to see one with LED that I would trade mine for - even most of those that had LEDs will readily admit that their MH colored the SPS better, but they like LED for other reasons and were happy with their choice. A good part of the old-school have spent significant time and money with LED and will not switch yet - so they are not too dogmatic to give it a go. There are 2 tanks that I want to see the next time that I make it to San Jose for work that use LED. I know that you don't want a LED argument, or discussion or anything, so this is not my intention... my intention is to suggest that you consider keeping your expectations at a reasonable level if the main thing that you want out of your LED are to have really colorful acros. There are a lot of things to love about LED, so please make the colors just part of the overall experience.

Make some SPS friends locally. They will have different lights. You can trade frags and look at the same coral in different tanks.

 

[flamron]

I just sold my Radion and went to an ATI LED Powermodule - the growth was there for the sticks (small new frags, but all encrusted about three to four weeks in). The colors however, just weren't there. I've ran LEDs for almost two years, and the color was always a bit lacking. I tried DIY LEDs first, and then went to the Radion. They were always missing that color that I'm so accustomed to seeing under my old Tek light (and halides before that).

I'm really liking the coloring on the powermodule. Mixing T5 with LEDs should hopefully give me the colors I miss, as well as the pop I like to see with the LEDs.

I am hoping to see more color over the next few months as they acclimate to the new light and settle in.

Here are a few pics (remember, this fixture was installed yesterday, and is too low right now until I can get the floor done in the living room and move the tank in there to hang it)

 

[Posseidon]

You might also add:
Too much of the wrong kind of spectrum as #4. If you have much of the typical white LEDs, you could be blasting the SPS with too much yellow, green and red.

I keep my alk at 9-10, but I don't get too concerned with ULNS... I let the Sandbed handle the nitrate and phosphate and both consistently test out "clear" on Salifert with no nuisance algae that the emeralds and snails cannot handle. ...the skimmer and coral take their part and the bacteria get to equilibrium on the rest.

Those are just frags. They don't even look encrusted yet. Give them some time before you do anything too crazy. They will grow quite fast if you are any good at this - I recently moved and started over with frags. For example, I got a Red Planet the size of a cheddar goldfish cracker in about February and it is the size of a normal sized cereal bowl 6 months later (about 6" across and 2.5" tall). I got a 1" frag of cali tort (the original ORA one) that is now 8" tall and 3-4" across. My RR multicolored matrix was the size of a M&M and now the size of a golf ball (pretty good for this coral). Anyway, have some patience with the SPS.

I have seen hundreds of high-end SPS tanks all across the nation and I have yet to see one with LED that I would trade mine for - even most of those that had LEDs will readily admit that their MH colored the SPS better, but they like LED for other reasons and were happy with their choice. A good part of the old-school have spent significant time and money with LED and will not switch yet - so they are not too dogmatic to give it a go. There are 2 tanks that I want to see the next time that I make it to San Jose for work that use LED. I know that you don't want a LED argument, or discussion or anything, so this is not my intention... my intention is to suggest that you consider keeping your expectations at a reasonable level if the main thing that you want out of your LED are to have really colorful acros. There are a lot of things to love about LED, so please make the colors just part of the overall experience.

Make some SPS friends locally. They will have different lights. You can trade frags and look at the same coral in different tanks.

My main light has 32 Whites and 32 Blues. I've put 3 types of whites, 10000K, 14000K and 18000K. What's typical white?
I'm no light expert, but I think white from MH has a good blend of Red, Green and Blue. I don't think Whites of LEDs are so rich in these spectrums. This is why many LED users add Reds and Greens though they got Whites. I never saw an MH user add a Red or Green T5 to their fixture.

I'll gradually bring my Alk up to 9-10. I've maintined ULNS with Biopellets and Macroalgae in sump.

I'm improving my patience level with this hobby. Just don't know how much is too much

Btw, check this tank out. All LEDs lighting. He's one of ur RC members.
http://hyne.phanfare.com/5547057

I'll keep my expectations reasonable. Decently colored if not bright as MH.

The little frags are new frags. However, the pale Acro was fragged 4 months ago and I just got it a month ago.

 

[Posseidon]

Ronnie, you know how to maintain SPS. You're done with the important and difficult part. Check out the link I've put in the above post. Hope that helps you stay motivated with LEDs. It's not as simple as using MH, but it's possible.

It's the challenges that makes this hobby interesting

 

[flamron]

That's why I went with a hybrid light. I want to stay with LEDs, but if I'm gonna stare at $1500 worth of frags, they better be the right color.

 

[Posseidon]

Yeah. You got that right

Btw, SPS in ur pics look good to me. Is it me or the pics?

Unfortunately, the current structure does not allow me to fit in any T5. For now, I'll stick with my attempt to color them up under LEDs only.

Maybe you can help me reach from my current-state to the good-state you achieved with LEDs.

 

[flamron]

The colors are meh right now. Still have a few that are just brown, but have either fully or almost fully encrusted the frag plugs.

I dose 5ml a day of two part (currently just alkalinity as my calcium is around 480) and do a 10g water change every two weeks. Not much else. I run GFO and carbon once in a while.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I thought I may find a lot of help from RC to setup my LED. :sad1:

In a nutshell, nobody really knows. One can post all the spectral plots, intensity plots and measurements under the sun (no pun) but the reality is that at this point LEDs are still hit or miss for most aquarists.

My un-scientific thoughts? For the most part, any reasonable MH or T5 setup covers most of the needed spectrum with sufficient intensity over a broad range of critical points. This gives a fairly stable foundation that allows allows other important variables (water chemistry, husbandry, etc) to wander over a wider range. The LEDs, missing many of the important spectral points and/or intensities, force the other variables to become more critical.

That is, given the same led fixture, one tank may do well because the imperfect LEDs do not push the envelope of the healthy tank. Yet, the second tank with the same LEDs may be pushed into an unhealthy state because other critical parameters are also not being met.

Just a theory, but reasonably logical....

 

[flamron]

Agreed Bean.

I saw some really great growth with the Radion. But I don't want to stare at brown sticks under blue light.

 

[Epicreefer]

From my experience with LEDs sps respond best to 75-150 par from white and blue led lighting. Once you get to 200-250 things start to look very bleached, these observations are from multiple reefs as well as one reef at diferent depths. While you can get 500 par with MH and get great color LEDs are a different light source and apparently doesn't directly compare. There are a lot of spectrums outside of 450-460 that royal blue LEDs produce that affects a MH PAR reding. I think the key to led sps tanks is 75-150 par, 8-9dkh 400+ Ca and 1250+ Mg. Stable parameters and low nutrients as usual with sps. From your initial posting .25ppm of PO4 is very high it should be 1/5th that at most. If you have too much nutrients things turn brown, too much light they bleach out and recede in direct light. The brown turns me to nutrients. BTW I have seen several sps getting 250 par from LEDs growing almost 1" a month, from the side they looked great to maybe a little bleached, from above I would have thought they were dead the bleaching was so bad. Dropped the PAR on them to 150 and they look much better in 3 weeks.

 

[Posseidon]

My PO4 used to be less than 0.25 when my SPS had browned. After vacuuming the substrate and regular water changes, my PO4 test kit does not show any color change at all. It's literally undetectable. And my SPS became pale after my PO4 became undetectable.

I had no idea that 200 PAR from LED could be different to 200 PAR from MH. That could be one possible reason for paling. I had my LEDs throwing around 170-230 PAR on SPS. So far, my pale SPS showed no signs of recovering its colors. Others are holding up fairly well.

I've reduced the intensity to 100-150 PAR today. I'll see how my SPS reacts to that. My DKH is at 7-8. I'll raise it up to 8-9 today. My Ca is about 460. It's been a while since I tested my Mg. I'll test that today. However, I think it should be in reasonable range as I've been very regular with weekly water changes.

 

[butters417]

Agreed Bean.

I saw some really great growth with the Radion. But I don't want to stare at brown sticks under blue light.

Did you have the Radion Pro? I heard that version is a lot better for coloration..I currently have gen 2 and was thinking of upgrading to the Pro. Maybe when they release the new models early next year...