****Attention Seachem Reef Salt Users****

[PUGroyale]

"this is the stupid thing I did. I have usually ran my dKH at 7.7-8 like Marshall. I had great colors but I had become greedy with my sps. I kept seeing Alexanders AWESOME sps collectiona nd colors and he was running 6.5 dKH with the KZ reefers salt." ... gqjeff

I probably would be concerned if my salt had an alkalinity significantly lower or higher than it tested at. I like to know exactly what my tanks param's are at. So I agree with you on the importance of SeaChems salt testing out incorrectly :thumbsup: I also believe as you develop experience in the hobby, and specifically SPS keeping, you understand tank levels can and usually do fluctuate despite our best efforts. If you're smart... you leave some room for error. It appears this is a philosophy you agree with:

"Like I said before, I have been using this bad batch of salt for the past few months and I have had no TN. However, the lowest my tank Alk has gotten has been 7.5 dkh, and most often stands ~8.0dkh." ... Horace

To opt, as jeff did, to try and run his tank at alk levels below that of NSW was IMHO foolhardy... a point he concede's himself

I think we've both covered our points on the topic... people interested in this can look at the different threads and make up their own minds I've said my piece. Happy reefing H

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7750178#post7750178 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PUGroyale
"this is the stupid thing I did. I have usually ran my dKH at 7.7-8 like Marshall. I had great colors but I had become greedy with my sps. I kept seeing Alexanders AWESOME sps collectiona nd colors and he was running 6.5 dKH with the KZ reefers salt." ... gqjeff

I probably would be concerned if my salt had an alkalinity significantly lower or higher than it tested at. I like to know exactly what my tanks param's are at. So I agree with you on the importance of SeaChems salt testing out incorrectly :thumbsup: I also believe as you develop experience in the hobby, and specifically SPS keeping, you understand tank levels can and usually do fluctuate despite our best efforts. If you're smart... you leave some room for error. It appears this is a philosophy you agree with:

"Like I said before, I have been using this bad batch of salt for the past few months and I have had no TN. However, the lowest my tank Alk has gotten has been 7.5 dkh, and most often stands ~8.0dkh." ... Horace

To opt, as jeff did, to try and run his tank at alk levels below that of NSW was IMHO foolhardy... a point he concede's himself

I think we've both covered our points on the topic... people interested in this can look at the different threads and make up their own minds I've said my piece. Happy reefing H

Totally agree.....Jeff is pretty critical of his tank and is constantly trying to make it better (thus the addition of a $2k skimmer after his tank already rocked). If it were me I think I would have left well enough alone because his tank was AWESOME. He admits he learned a lesson w/ all of this as well.....Im sure he will come back better than ever. Even with all the losses, he still has some amazing colonies. Its just his Montis and Milis that have been hit hard. Most of his acros are still looking great.

 

[melev]

 

[reefplayer]

If i am going to spend more money to get a BEST SALT and yet got to check and double check the kH and take pre-caution on kH and subtracting 20% from the result of my actual kH value?

Hell no way i will do that switch.. (Just my own opinion)
I am wondering why do i need to do so much and spend so much money just to get my corals healthy and beautiful where esle something simple and conventional will do the same job? I am puzzled.

 

[amuruges]

What if down the road seachem decides to bring down the borate level to NSW?

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7758922#post7758922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by amuruges
What if down the road seachem decides to bring down the borate level to NSW?

They have already brought it down from like 13x to 3x NSW. I doubt they will bring it down further, but who knows. If they were to bring the borate down then obviously we would have to reduce the factor....Hopefully they would be bold enough to tell their users about it.


Again this thread is not meant to persuade you to either use Seachem salt or not. As noted, I use thier salt and will continue to do so for some time to come. frankly it is not that big a deal to just keep in mind the factor and simply adjust your reading slightly. Its not like you have to do math every single time... You just have to know your target level (for me between 9.5 - 10 dkh before adjustment which is ~7.5- 8.0dkh). To me it is worth it because I do not like having to add Ca and Mg on every water change just to get that level up to where I want it. Also the kh level on this salt is where I want it, not too high like many others (IO in peticular). So other than knowing my Kh is reading a bit higher than it actually is, its alot easier to deal with IMO.

 

[TryTheChi]

I use both the full zeovit system and seachem reef salts and have not experienced a problem. The zeoland thread was useful in concluding that elevated borate levels are not considered a problem, (even though one of thier 'leading lights' initially convinced himself it was the issue) and also for establishing the amount of KH one has to deduct from tests.

There is no problem with seachem salts IME, even with running dkh at 7.7 without detracting a value for borate.

Who knows what happened to those zeo tanks? Could even be a bad batch of zeo additives? Its a possibility amoungst a few other possibilities.

 

[TryTheChi]

B - its post number 11 on that thread on that forum you want to refer yourself back to. Reread the comment above and compare with your final final word

Peace

Simon

 

[Milleme]

So if I test the water in my main display while using seachem i still need to subtract 20% or is it just testing straight from my mixing bucket?

How do you now if you got a bad batch?

Lastly, I rescaped my tank a few weeks ago at the same time I changed salts. While the corals got stressed from being messed with n' all, not all of them are looking to hot after the change. My alk has been pretty constant at around 9.0 using a salifert test kit without the 20% subtraction. This is what is was before I switched salts also. Do you think this could stressing the corals more.

 

[ReeferAl]

It is kind of semantics, but I would point out that the tests are measuring ALKALINITY of Seachem salt CORRECTLY. The measurements are not incorrectly high. The measurements of CARBONATE HARDNESS are overestimated in tests of Seachem salt. When reefers talk about alkalinty or dKh (German unit of carbonate hardness), we tend to use them interchangably. This is fine for NSW where the vast majority of the alkalinity comes from carbonate and bicarbonate. In NSW, the contribution to alkalinity of ions like borate is minimal. In Seachem salt, the borate contributionn to total alkalinity is no longer negligible so alkalinity and dKh are no longer the same.

The alkalinity tests measure the alkalinity of any salt correctly, but with elevated borate the carbonate proportion of alkalinity (the dKh) is less than the total and this must be taken into account as Horace has indicated.

Allen

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7789689#post7789689 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReeferAl
It is kind of semantics, but I would point out that the tests are measuring ALKALINITY of Seachem salt CORRECTLY. The measurements are not incorrectly high. The measurements of CARBONATE HARDNESS are overestimated in tests of Seachem salt. When reefers talk about alkalinty or dKh (German unit of carbonate hardness), we tend to use them interchangably. This is fine for NSW where the vast majority of the alkalinity comes from carbonate and bicarbonate. In NSW, the contribution to alkalinity of ions like borate is minimal. In Seachem salt, the borate contributionn to total alkalinity is no longer negligible so alkalinity and dKh are no longer the same.

The alkalinity tests measure the alkalinity of any salt correctly, but with elevated borate the carbonate proportion of alkalinity (the dKh) is less than the total and this must be taken into account as Horace has indicated.

Allen

Yep thats exactly right....Its just hard to explain so its easier to just say the test reads artificially high....Like you say, its not the kit that is the problem.

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7789323#post7789323 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Milleme
So if I test the water in my main display while using seachem i still need to subtract 20% or is it just testing straight from my mixing bucket?

How do you now if you got a bad batch?

Lastly, I rescaped my tank a few weeks ago at the same time I changed salts. While the corals got stressed from being messed with n' all, not all of them are looking to hot after the change. My alk has been pretty constant at around 9.0 using a salifert test kit without the 20% subtraction. This is what is was before I switched salts also. Do you think this could stressing the corals more.

Hi Milleme.

The % to subtract from your dkh to arrive at a clearer view of your carbonate hardness depends on salinity and proportion of the total tank water that is made up of the salt. The 20% figure is for 100% seachem salt @ 1.025. Seachem have put up a helpful sliding scale in thier section.

A bad batch is just a batch where the dkh, ca mg varies from the advertised levels (maybe there are other deviations that we cant measure - but those are the indicators). You can tell by testing for these before adding to the tank.

One change at a time, is the rule of tumb for sps husbandary. So changing salts and rescaping at the same time may not be ideal... However the change in carbonate harness in the tank as a result of changing salts depends on th e% water changes you did at any one time. More frequent smaller % changes may be a good strategy. Randy did a helpful article on this a while back.

HTH

Simon

 

[TryTheChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7789323#post7789323 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Milleme
So if I test the water in my main display while using seachem i still need to subtract 20% or is it just testing straight from my mixing bucket?

How do you now if you got a bad batch?

Lastly, I rescaped my tank a few weeks ago at the same time I changed salts. While the corals got stressed from being messed with n' all, not all of them are looking to hot after the change. My alk has been pretty constant at around 9.0 using a salifert test kit without the 20% subtraction. This is what is was before I switched salts also. Do you think this could stressing the corals more.

Hi Milleme.

The % to subtract from your dkh to arrive at a clearer view of your carbonate hardness depends on salinity and proportion of the total tank water that is made up of the salt. The 20% figure is for 100% seachem salt @ 1.025. Seachem have put up a helpful sliding scale in thier section.

A bad batch is just a batch where the dkh, ca mg varies from the advertised levels (maybe there are other deviations that we cant measure - but those are the indicators). You can tell by testing for these before adding to the tank.

One change at a time, is the rule of tumb for sps husbandary. So changing salts and rescaping at the same time may not be ideal... However the change in carbonate harness in the tank as a result of changing salts depends on th e% water changes you did at any one time. More frequent smaller % changes may be a good strategy. Randy did a helpful article on this a while back.

HTH

Simon