Avast Marine ATO vs Tunze Osmolator ATO 3155

[mr9iron]

There's nothing wrong with that setup at all.

Just make sure if the pump and reservoir are higher than the sump that you have a siphon break above the water line in the reservoir. Otherwise you'll siphon all your top off water to the sump.

I don't know much about the diaphragm pump, but what I can say is with the peristaltic pump you get a nice, and slow addition of Kalk to the tank which is ideal. This way you don't supersaturate the tank and cause a drastic rise in PH or precipitation of calcium.

 

[ScubaNemo]

You can program the apex to have it cut off the pump after a set point of turning on. Mine shuts off after 3 minutes of running for 45 minutes for some reason the switch is stuck Also email me if this happens.

Can you please share the apex command to turn the ATO pump off if running more than 3 mins? Thanks!

 

[2000se]

Ok, thanks all, seems I have made the mind up. Will be placing order soon to start on this.

 

[C.Eymann]

People have been using these setups for years without issue before the AIO units came along. I too run mine through a Kalk stirrer.

A manual timer will work just fine, just set it to come on for a couple of hours once or twice and day. The float switch will catch it like its supposed to.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the tunze isn't a fine piece of equipment or it's unreliable or any of that stuff. Just like you said, there are hoards of people who like them. But me personally, if asked my opinion between the tunze or something cheaper, I'll always suggest the cheaper option since they all accomplish the same goal. For me, it just doesn't make financial sense.

All simply my opinion on the subject.

Having the ATO on a timer means more will be added all at once instead of small amounts throughout the day which the latter is more desirable, if the tunze unit runs more than 5min or so it knows something is wrong and shuts it's self off.
The tunze unit is 100% out of the box, no timer needed and again would rather have it adding small amounts throughout the day/night rather than adding 1/2 a gallon or more to make up for evap. as soon as the manual timer you describe activates the unit.

Also while pressure switches may have been in use longer, doesn't automatically mean the avast has a guaranteed solid track record just cause it uses one.

Both are good choices but the tunze is tried and true and is well trusted by many reefers, and i am having a hard time finding a reason to put either on a timer.

 

[2000se]

I really appreciate everyones input here. This is why I post things that I am debating in my head. Everyone has their own experience and contributing them here really helps fellow reefers at least try to make a good decision.

 

[Bent]

Having the ATO on a timer means more will be added all at once instead of small amounts throughout the day which the latter is more desirable, if the tunze unit runs more than 5min or so it knows something is wrong and shuts it's self off.
The tunze unit is 100% out of the box, no timer needed and again would rather have it adding small amounts throughout the day/night rather than adding 1/2 a gallon or more to make up for evap. as soon as the manual timer you describe activates the unit.

Also while pressure switches may have been in use longer, doesn't automatically mean the avast has a guaranteed solid track record just cause it uses one.

Both are good choices but the tunze is tried and true and is well trusted by many reefers, and i am having a hard time finding a reason to put either on a timer.

Trying to insinuate that the tunze unit is fail-proof, or problem free, or more or less reliable than any other option, i dont think is true. People still have their share problems with optical switches and the tunze unit in general, just like any other piece of equipment. Again, tunze is a great company and will help you out with any problem, but again, to say it's not going to fail or have less problems over another unit or method of ATO just isn't accurate and is just asking for an accident to happen. You have to plan on all of this stuff failing, no matter who makes it, or you'll come home to a mess one day.

And no, IMO you don't want any ATO running off and on all day long. It's added wear and tear on the pump and can lead to other problems. And again, yes with an external cheap timer you can program the pump to turn itself off after a set amount of time. That's the entire point of using one.

I'm not bagging on the Tunze unit at all. I would say the exact same thing about any other unit for sale.

In my opinion none of these units are leaps and bounds better than each other.

No disrespect intended sir. Just trying to have a healthy debate. :wavehand:

 

[Bent]

I really appreciate everyones input here. This is why I post things that I am debating in my head. Everyone has their own experience and contributing them here really helps fellow reefers at least try to make a good decision.

You will be more than pleased with either unit you decide to get. Both are good quality made by great companies that stand by their products. Just make sure you triple and quadruple your redundancies when you install it. Murphy's law is in full swing with reef aquariums for some reason.

Failing to plan is planning to fail.

 

[C.Eymann]

Trying to insinuate that the tunze unit is fail-proof, or problem free, or more or less reliable than any other option, i dont think is true. People still have their share problems with optical switches and the tunze unit in general, just like any other piece of equipment. Again, tunze is a great company and will help you out with any problem, but again, to say it's not going to fail or have less problems over another unit or method of ATO just isn't accurate and is just asking for an accident to happen. You have to plan on all of this stuff failing, no matter who makes it, or you'll come home to a mess one day.

And no, IMO you don't want any ATO running off and on all day long. It's added wear and tear on the pump and can lead to other problems. And again, yes with an external cheap timer you can program the pump to turn itself off after a set amount of time. That's the entire point of using one.

I'm not bagging on the Tunze unit at all. I would say the exact same thing about any other unit for sale.

In my opinion none of these units are leaps and bounds better than each other.

No disrespect intended sir. Just trying to have a healthy debate. :wavehand:

Well, there is definitely more than one way to skin a cat, I'll agree, one is not leaps and bounds better over the other.

I'm just curious as to why you think that its better to run one on a timer, you say it can prematurely wear a pump out, I'll agree to that it may lead to increased wear, but for the tunze the pump can be replaced for 25 beans or so.
You said "other problems" in addition to pump wear, care to elaborate?

I know with my evaporation that if I only had the ato coming on at night it would dump at least a gallon, maybe two all at once, which is risky with kalkwasser, also that is a quick change in salinity as well. Another thing is that having it running that long, at least with the Tunze, it would probably shut it's self off because of the internal timer getting tripped.

Just doesn't seem very stable.

All about keeping it friendly, no one is wrong here, every opinion is worth something.

:beer:

 

[Reef Frog]

Another defence measure for any ATO is to only use a volume of top off water in the reservoir that

A) Won't lower salinity to levels that could kill things, and
B) Isn't enough to overflow the system

This may not work for folks who are away for long periods of time or have enormous evaporation rates. It works for me and with my hood to decrease evaporation, I've found I can be away for up to 9 days in the winter before exausting the reservoir.

I'm going to get rid of my Elos ATO & go with an Avast. I won't be able to use the back up float switch, but I feel with a timer, a hood & limited reservoir volume I can avoid an ATO disaster.

QUESTION ON AVAST UNIT:
-------------------------------
If the standard AC config is purchased, can it be updated later to work with an APEX or the other controllers? Thanks.

 

[Bent]

Well, there is definitely more than one way to skin a cat, I'll agree, one is not leaps and bounds better over the other.

I'm just curious as to why you think that its better to run one on a timer, you say it can prematurely wear a pump out, I'll agree to that it may lead to increased wear, but for the tunze the pump can be replaced for 25 beans or so.
You said "other problems" in addition to pump wear, care to elaborate?

I know with my evaporation that if I only had the ato coming on at night it would dump at least a gallon, maybe two all at once, which is risky with kalkwasser, also that is a quick change in salinity as well. Another thing is that having it running that long, at least with the Tunze, it would probably shut it's self off because of the internal timer getting tripped.

Just doesn't seem very stable.

All about keeping it friendly, no one is wrong here, every opinion is worth something.

:beer:

Well here's my reasonings and thoughts.

Topping off a system once a day will harm nothing. Before ATOs were utilized, this was simply "the way". I have actually in the past been lazy and skipped a couple of days without topping off with no harm. Salinity increases, as long as they are done slowly, will not harm anything and sudden decreases in salinity are harmless as well. The salinity of the reef is very volatile, almost as volatile as the temp and routinely goes through large slow swings. It's not rock solid stable as we are meant to believe as aquarists.

Lime water is a very safe method, this is the majority of the reason why it is used. Generally, corals and fish are not effected by pH to a certain degree. People have kept successful reef tanks at a incredibly wide range of pHs. It's alkalinity swings that harms them. The only reason that pH will affect anything is because of what it does to alkalinity, not the pH itself. Saturated Kalk actually doesn't have a whole heck of a lot of alkalinity and overdoses of Kalk are much much much safer than an overdose of two part. Most of the time a Kalk overdose doesn't even require any kind of intervention.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php#11

As for wear and tear, while 20 beans isn't a big deal. It's still 20 beans. Penny pinchers like myself don't want to spend that money if it is avoidable. Plus it will be the one time that your gone on vaca that the ATO pump fails, and the tank evaporates over the course of a week or two and you come home to a burned up return pump and other disasters because it's been running dry for a week solid. I forgot to add that it's a good idea to plumb multiple pumps into the same ATO powered by the same float switch just in case one of them decides to die.

:beer:

 

[Bent]

Another defence measure for any ATO is to only use a volume of top off water in the reservoir that

A) Won't lower salinity to levels that could kill things, and
B) Isn't enough to overflow the system

This may not work for folks who are away for long periods of time or have enormous evaporation rates. It works for me and with my hood to decrease evaporation, I've found I can be away for up to 9 days in the winter before exausting the reservoir.

I'm going to get rid of my Elos ATO & go with an Avast. I won't be able to use the back up float switch, but I feel with a timer, a hood & limited reservoir volume I can avoid an ATO disaster.

QUESTION ON AVAST UNIT:
-------------------------------
If the standard AC config is purchased, can it be updated later to work with an APEX or the other controllers? Thanks.

Yes, you can buy the other switches on their site. I think they are ~70 bucks.

http://www.avastmarine.com/products/pressure-switch

Just change the options in the menu before you add it to the cart.

 

[C.Eymann]

Well here's my reasonings and thoughts.

Topping off a system once a day will harm nothing. Before ATOs were utilized, this was simply "the way". I have actually in the past been lazy and skipped a couple of days without topping off with no harm. Salinity increases, as long as they are done slowly, will not harm anything and sudden decreases in salinity are harmless as well. The salinity of the reef is very volatile, almost as volatile as the temp and routinely goes through large slow swings. It's not rock solid stable as we are meant to believe as aquarists.

Lime water is a very safe method, this is the majority of the reason why it is used. Generally, corals and fish are not effected by pH to a certain degree. People have kept successful reef tanks at a incredibly wide range of pHs. It's alkalinity swings that harms them. The only reason that pH will affect anything is because of what it does to alkalinity, not the pH itself. Saturated Kalk actually doesn't have a whole heck of a lot of alkalinity and overdoses of Kalk are much much much safer than an overdose of two part. Most of the time a Kalk overdose doesn't even require any kind of intervention.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php#11

As for wear and tear, while 20 beans isn't a big deal. It's still 20 beans. Penny pinchers like myself don't want to spend that money if it is avoidable. Plus it will be the one time that your gone on vaca that the ATO pump fails, and the tank evaporates over the course of a week or two and you come home to a burned up return pump and other disasters because it's been running dry for a week solid. I forgot to add that it's a good idea to plumb multiple pumps into the same ATO powered by the same float switch just in case one of them decides to die.

:beer:

Kalkwasser is not completely safe, I have nuked one of my old tanks by using a digital timer and an aqua lifter to dose it, wasn't aware that when the battery on the timer
dies it goes into "stay on" mode. It can spike the ph as full strength kalk is 12, then causes all the alk/carbonate to precipitate out, aka ALK crash.

Also had a kalk reactor on the sps tank of a store I worked at come close to killing everything because another employee bagged a bunch of coral for a customer without turning off the valve. Corals were not happy at all, they survived though. My case I lost everything.

Alot of people recommend adding vinegar in kalk OSS, also bubbling CO2 to get the pH down, I'm sure if you do some searching you will find some horror stories of kalkwasser grenading a tank.

WhIle swings and spikes you say isn't harmful, I agree the salinity change is not going to kill anything, and "probably" not stress anything, but we won't know until coral evolves some vocal chords talk to us and let us know what does and doesn't make them happy. So far the trend we have seen to have the most success with is stable parameters. That's my main reasoning for not endorsing your idea of using a timer.

To each their own :thumbsup:

 

[Bent]

Kalkwasser is not completely safe, I have nuked one of my old tanks by using a digital timer and an aqua lifter to dose it, wasn't aware that when the battery on the timer
dies it goes into "stay on" mode. It can spike the ph as full strength kalk is 12, then causes all the alk/carbonate to precipitate out, aka ALK crash.

Also had a kalk reactor on the sps tank of a store I worked at come close to killing everything because another employee bagged a bunch of coral for a customer without turning off the valve. Corals were not happy at alleast

Alot of people recommend adding vinegar in kalk OSS, also bubbling CO2 to get the pH down, I'm sure if you do some searching you will find some horror stories of kalkwasser grenading a tank.

WhIle swings and spikes you say isn't harmful, I agree the salinity change is not going to kill anything, and "probably" not stress anything, but we won't know until coral evolves some vocal chords talk to us and let us know what does and doesn't make them happy. So far the trend we have seen to have the most success with is stable parameters. That's my main reasoning for not endorsing your idea of using a timer.

To each their own :thumbsup:

I had a Kalk over dose as well, nothing was harmed. Many people have had significant Kalk over doses and walked away without issue. Not that it can't cause any problems, but often times the aquarist running to "fix" the problem and creating a huge swing back to "normal" is the root of why livestock was lost and not from the over dose itself.

Again, people have kept successful reefs well before ATOs were in use by hand topping them, and salinity swings were a non issue. Also, it takes a pretty hefty amount of evap on the system to raise the salinity on 100 gallons with my system. I've forgotten to turn the ATO back on before for a couple of days and lost about 2-4 gallons worth of evap and my SG only raised by about .04.

Come to think of it, I wonder what the formula is to that? Like how much water loss to raise SG by .01? That would be cool to know.

Anyways, I can't endorse your idea of not using a timer, so neener!

Good debate sir!

Anyways, we can both agree that the OP will be pleased with whichever unit he decides on, despite the small nuances. :beer:

 

[C.Eymann]

Anyways, we can both agree that the OP will be pleased with whichever unit he decides on, despite the small nuances. :beer:

Definitely agree with you there

:beer:

 

[Bent]

Definitely agree with you there

:beer:

This is how normal people discuss a difference in opinion.

Thanks for the civility, it seems lost these days.

 

[2000se]

QUESTION ON AVAST UNIT:
-------------------------------
If the standard AC config is purchased, can it be updated later to work with an APEX or the other controllers? Thanks.

Interesting question -- I'd also like to know that..

 

[homer1475]

Not knowing the Avast ATO or its setup, but couldn't it just be plugged into an EB8 and be programmed like any other equipment?


EDIT:
I guess I should look these things up before posting. lol

I see you can actually use it like a DIY ATO with the BOB and float switches, and the apex acts as the brain. I guess I would want to know the answer also.

 

[2000se]

And to let everyone here know,
I just pulled the trigger on the avast system with the diaphragm pump ( It won't burst the pipes if the float valve closes unlike the peristaltic pump will). I will be using both the pressure sensor and the float valve as water level measurement devices. Hopefully the float valve will just sit there and never need to be activated as the pressure sensor works as expected. I feel I am going to only extend the freshwater reservoir by about 2 to 3 gallons as that's really the only amount extra I need to get me by the time I need.

To this point, I still need to add to this ( such as timer, additional float valves, etc..) BUT this is where I'm starting ! .. Great feedback here..I'll try to come back to this thread for some updates at a later date on my experience with the avast system.

 

[Bent]

Interesting question -- I'd also like to know that..

I answered it on the first page. Yes you can.

Actually it was this page. Post 31

 

[vhuang168]

I answered it on the first page. Yes you can.

Actually it was this page. Post 31

Actually the answer is no you cannot. You have to buy a new switch.


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