Az-no3

[Big Goose]

Great product but beware if you have clams or Fox. Really lowered the NO3.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CP2151

I talked to John (Coral Reef Aquatics) about stocking it.

 

[Mariner]

Big Goose,
Glad this product is working for you.
Personally, I refer to keep NO3 at undetectable levels with careful feeding, water changes, refugia, etc.... but there's certainly more than one way to skin a cat...or maintain a reef!

I read the synopsis explaining the mechanism used by AZ-NO3 to reduce nitrates, and I must say that I failed to follow it. I'd be interested to know if someone with a more scientific mind than mine can grasp/explain it.... maybe Greenbean can chime in. What I gather is that AZ-NO3 works in some way (that I don't understand) to allow nitrate to be removed by the skimmer. So, using this product would also require good skimming, right?

Here's the synopsis:
The AZ-NO3 (Absolute Zero - NitratesTM) product works entirely by aerobic Cellular Respiration on the target Nitrate molecule, which is then removed by the Protein Skimmer. The oxidoreductases necessary for these processes are the chemical mechanism of an enzyme action.

In the most simplest of explanations, AZ-NO3 can be considered an essential food, required by the active enzyme maltase that functions as a cellular respirator. The manufacturing process renders this product as an undesirable food to certain detrimental enzyme (amylase and invertase) that could uncontrollably proliferate in the aquarium.

Our product utilizes a specific enzyme in the maltase group to activate the oxidoreductases necessary to reduce nitrates by cellular respiration in the aquarium. The product itself does not contain this enzyme, but can be thought of more like a seed, a seed contains the germ (plant) and the food for the plant to grow. The mature plant then becomes the basic food product utilized.

The active ingredient in our product is Cozymase which functions in the oxidation of proteins and of many other compounds important in the intermediary metabolism and the resulting active enzyme Maltase in the aquarium. The Massecuite is food for both the Cozymase to develop and the resultant Maltase to thrive.

 

[H@rry]

Now Mariner! . . . . what part of that did you "fail to follow"? Boy oh boy!

 

[DrHank]

It's been a lot of years since I took biochemistry but I'll give simplifying it a try. Simply put Nitrate (NO3) is inorganic. It lacks both Carbon and Hydrogen. A skimmer can't remove inorganic compounds.

This product combines with the nitrate and allows it to bind (turning it into an organic compound). Then the skimmer is able to pull it out of solution.

I know that this is an oversimplification and may not be totally scientifficaly correct but it's the best way to put it into lay terminology.

 

[8BALL_99]

I'm not a fan of chemicals for removing NO3. Nitrate sponges and chemicals like this might reduce NO3, But to me I would think it would cause a dependency. The whole point of a tank cycle is to give the natural bacteria time to catch up to the amount of ammonia and NO3 in your tank. If you add chemicals to remove or absorb this stuff then your tank will never have enough bacteria to keep it down on its own.. So more then likely you will always have to add something to get levels where they should be..

I've been pretty lucky with our tanks.. We have never had NO3 problems. Even with our first tank when I just used a seaclone it stayed at 10ppm or below.. most of the time below.. And that tank had 3 water changes in over a year lol.. Our tanks stay at 0 even with a low level NO3 test. I do over feed but I always have so the tank is able to break down the access NP

Don't over stock or over feed, Lots of live rock, Lots of flow and a large skimmer will do the trick.

Will

 

[JimW]

Mariner, this stuff sounds like another carbon source to me. Pulled this from description of the product.

******************************************************
SHORT TERM EFFECTS: If the aquarist has never used an enzyme activating product in their aquarium, it is most likely that they will experience a short bacterial bloom, lasting normally from day number 3 through day number 5 of the program, indicated as a whitish haze in the water. The extent of clouding is dependent on many factors relative to each specific aquaria. The alternative start-up methods of using the product is recommended, to reduce the amount of cloudiness in the aquarium, as the beneficial bacteria proliferate and become active. If the customers aquarium currently has an ionic imbalance, or undesirable enzymes already exist, a very prominent white haze will result. This clouding is harmless and will dissipate as the enzymes become active or the imbalance corrected.
******************************************************

Sounds very much like the results obtained by dosing sugar, vodka, vinegar or any other carbon source to create bacterial bloom. Bacteria consume nitrate & phosphate, then removed by skimmer.

From what I have read, long term use of carbon sources will result in less diversified bacterial populations, but have no first hand experience myself.

Jim

 

[DrHank]

One of the enzymes indicated is maltase. Maltase will (at least theoretically) break down the sugar that the bacteria feed on. That appears to be what keeps you from developing a bacterial bloom.

It really doesn't seem like it's intended to leave a carbon source for the bacteria to consume. I don't think that it is in any way similar to what happens when sugar or vodka are dosed.

This product seems to be intended to bind NO3 to an organic compound as opposed to oxidizing it in the tank to drive off nitrogen gas.

Is it a natrual control means? No. Could you become dependent on it? Yes (if you don't change some other husbandry practices). Is there the potential for oxygen depletion as in sugar or vodka dosing? I don't think so.

I wouldn't be happy with 10 ppm No3 in a reef tank. I'm still fighting a hair algae problem in a six month old tank with PO4 at zero and No3 at 2.5. For me 10 ppm would be out of the question.

 

[8BALL_99]

DrHank do you run a Phosban Reactor?. I'd try that.. We had 0 Nitrates and 0 PO4 as far as my Salifert kits were concerned but still had Hair algae everywhere in my 180 after the move.. Added a Phosban Reactor and after 3 weeks its gone.. I was amazed how fast it started to vanish.

Will

 

[DrHank]

Not yet Will but I think that it may be in my future. Even though I'm testing 0 I'm reasonably sure that it's because the PO4 is bound to the algae and substrate.

I have a phosphate sponge and additive similar to the AZ-NO3 on order. Three weeks is just about the right amount of time needed to clear the system. If this clears it and it comes back or if it doesent work, the Phosban reactor in next.

Thanks for your input. I'm glad that it's working so well for you.

 

[timrandlerv10]

ok, what's the deal with...Calfo? and running water quickly across a 'dsb in a bucket' compared to this? if that lowers nitrates to 0 so easily, how come nobody is using it?

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Here's an interesting take on AZ-NO3 by Randy Holmes-Farley and Habib (Salifert's CEO/chemist.)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194295&highlight=PO4+Minus

A good reefkeeping practices keep both NO3 and PO4 at undetectable levels.

Tomoko

 

[DrHank]

I think that Tomoko's last sentance:

A good reefkeeping practices keep both NO3 and PO4 at undetectable levels.

Says it all!

 

[Mariner]

OK, between DrHank's explanation and the one given by Boomer in the link Tomoko posted, I think I get it. But frankly, if it takes two doctors to explain the meaning of an explanation, the explanation ain't that good. Apparently, Harry is the only one to fully grasp the subtle scientific nuances on his own

Here's my next question: How come when Tomoko says, "A good reefkeeping practices keep both NO3 and PO4 at undetectable levels," people think its profound and right on, etc. But when I say, "I prefer to keep NO3 at undetectable levels with careful feeding, water changes, refugia, etc...." no one even acknowledges that I said anything? Makes me feel like the Rodney Dangerfield of reefers :lol:
Mariner

 

[DrHank]

I don't know but don't feel lonesome. My wife accuses me of not listening to anything she says on almosts a daily basis. Maybe it's because you started your post with that statement and by the end of the post it had been lost in the confusion of AZ-No3. Tomoko ended his post with the good reefkeeping statement.

My regrets for not acknowledging your statement as well. Let me restate that both Tomoko and Mariner seem to have hit the nail on the head in stating that proper husbandry practices are the key to success in the hobby!

Sorry for my ommission.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Ha ha, Mariner, you're lacking the Great Master appeal of David Carradine If you achieve that ancient oriental look, everyone will be asking how did you become such a great master. :lol:

Tomoko

 

[Mariner]

Oh, I feel soooooo much better :lol:
:bounce2: :bounce1: :bounce3: :dance:
Thanks DrHank!
Mariner

 

[Big Goose]

Detritus, Detritus, Detritus.
AZ-NO3 causes it to clump so it can the skimmer can remove it more easly. (That is what is says on the bottle).

Excuse me for having to rely on such a product to reduce my NO3!!

I am not a "Expert" like some here.

 

[DrHank]

Goose, as long as it works for you who cares. Someone once told me that an expert was a has been drip under pressure. I can tell you that I'm far from an expert. I think we all learn as we go. Happy New Year!!

 

[Big Goose]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8836094#post8836094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by timrandlerv10
ok, what's the deal with...Calfo? and running water quickly across a 'dsb in a bucket' compared to this? if that lowers nitrates to 0 so easily, how come nobody is using it?

I now have a six inch sandbed over one inch of mud in my 28g tall Refug and hope to continue with low NO3.

My NO3 was high because I have a lot of fish. I like fish and intend to add MORE!

I am having to change my filters once a week because there is so many particles in suspension from the AZ-NO3 and increased current flow. I also have to clean my skimmer twice as often since adding AZ-NO3. I have not added any in over 3 weeks and the NO3 level continues to fall.

How is adding Vodka or Sugar a superior practice over adding NO3? They are all suplements!

I used lactos for a while but did not notice any reduction. I built a Nitrate reactor but cold not get the flow and feed correct and it added nitrates and amonia.

I have the Mag 12 in the tank now with a single nozle and that has sturred alot of crap under the rocks. I am going to buy some Loc plumbing for the pump sp I can distribute and change the flow. ( I have another and might put it on the other side of the tank-Vroom)

My new Orange Spot Goby is also doing a good job cleaning up the sand.

Peace-Out.

 

[DrHank]

Goose, I think that you are better off with AZ-NO3. Both Sugar and Vodka cause a bacterial surge which can result in oxygen depletion. Since you like fish (lots of fish) it's really important that you maintain as high an O2 concentration as possible.

I'd stick with the AZ-NO3. It's working for you so why change. To me it wouldn't be worth the risk!