Azno3

[melev]

For the past two weeks, I've not used anything to remove phosphate. Whenever something odd happens in my tank, I tend to shy away from any extra equipment and take things offline for a duration. There are times when I think have GFO in the system isn't the wisest move, but then other days I feel it'll do the job. Rather wishy-washy, I know.

My latest test two days ago, PO4 was nearly undetectable.

For the past couple of years, I've been using GFO from various companies, but what always works and works well for me is CaribSea's Phosbuster Pro. It might be the same Lanthanum chloride in a bottle that Blue Life is now selling, I don't know.

I do need to be harvesting macro algae out of my refugium more often. That is a good means of export that I don't implement nearly enough.

 

[Boomer]

Carlo

I understand what you're saying Boomer but other people have experienced problems. I know I've seen it myself. You can even read about it here at RC with people dropping their nitrates to fast with vodka

And for the 3rd time Carlo they do not have nitrates in the 30, 40 and 60 like Marc. You are comparing apples and oranges. SHOW me some who has nitrates as high as Marc and on this.

 

[jdieck]

IMO droping Nitrates fast down to the point were criters are still not limited by Nitrates is safe beyond that point I would go slow.
Having said that the method of droping nitrates may afect other parameters that in turn may afect the critters, not the nitrate but the most usual is drop in oxygen and/or trace elements and or some organics due to the sudden increase in skimming performance.

 

[cayars]

Yes, exactly Jose. Some coral themselves can also be directly affected by a sudden drop in nitrates too. But it's mostly the other processes going on in the tank that indirectly affect the corals and their food sources.

Boomer, go read some of the vodka threads or better yet the Zeovit and other low nutrient systems and reed some of the stories where people dropped the nitrogen sources quickly with very bad outcomes. There are plenty of these around.

Carlo

 

[Boomer]

For the 4th time Carlo they are not dropping nitrates from 30, 40 or 60 ppm down to 15, 20 or 30 will effect nothing. That is way above limiting values. I keep asking you show me such a thread and you know there are none. You HAVE to LOOK at limiting values and we are nowhere near that. If this was such a big deal peoples tanks would be crashing all the time. Phyl and you know who she is, who just did a 95 % water and saw what Carlo, the corals loved it.

But it's mostly the other processes going on in the tank that indirectly affect the corals and their food sources.


Sure is funny how you state this after it is explained to you but not found in any of your other posts till now. You do this allot.

And usually when you do large WC the DO levels go up not down as there is less oxidation going on and a decrease in the BOD.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10916095#post10916095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
IMO droping Nitrates fast down to the point were critters are still not limited by Nitrates is safe beyond that point I would go slow.
Having said that the method of droping nitrates may affect other parameters that in turn may affect the critters, not the nitrate but the most usual is drop in oxygen and/or trace elements and or some organics due to the sudden increase in skimming performance.

I had a thought on this post.

With improved skimmer performance, I'd have to believe organics would drop for sure, but I doubt oxygen would drop since the skimmer is a massive airstone in the system, right?

If I do water changes regularly (ugh), I'd be replacing trace elements regularly. I might as well start up the RO/DI system and collect 55g today.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10916710#post10916710 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I had a thought on this post.

With improved skimmer performance, I'd have to believe organics would drop for sure, but I doubt oxygen would drop since the skimmer is a massive airstone in the system, right?

If I do water changes regularly (ugh), I'd be replacing trace elements regularly. I might as well start up the RO/DI system and collect 55g today.

Because Oxygen dissolution depends do not only depends on surface agitation, there are instances (specially at night) were bacterial development may consume it faster than it can dissolve into the water. In any case it might not be an issue unless circulation gets restricted somehow.
On the depletion and alternative to increased water changes might be the use of trace elements supplement.

 

[melev]

I tested nitrates today: < 30ppm, but still more than 25ppm.

 

[cayars]

Boomer have you searched like I've recommended you search since you don't believe me? Do you want me to do your homework for you?

Carlo

 

[Boomer]

No, I don't need to and should not have to Carlo or any one else. Show me a link with NO3- like Mrac's and where there was a crash. You always seem to post stuff and then rarely give give a link of the claimed info. It has nothing to do with home work so don't be playing that game. I or others should not have to go do a search if you have already have a link or know were it is. That is pretty much common practice here, give the link to back up ones remarks, if such is stated somewhere, otherwise it is just so much hear-say. Randy would ask you flat out "got a link" . I have asked a number of times for it. So, I ask why won't you give it.


And as far as me

If this was such a big deal peoples tanks would be crashing all the time[

Link....from me...... this is pretty much very common knowledge on any forum. Just like you should not be using tap water......do I need a link for that ? But some do use tap-water and do fine.

No none is saying that a large WC change has never crashed tank. As I said before we have had more complaints on other issues 100x more than any WC causing problems. Randy has often has mentioned here and in his artilcxe on WC and sup addition articles 30 % WC /M. For you that is way to large.

Here is my link

The normally encountered differences in calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, nitrate, phosphate, silica, pH, etc., are unlikely to unduly stress organisms during water changes up to 30-50% using natural seawater or aerated artificial seawater, in my opinion.


Water Changes in Reef Aquaria

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10917088#post10917088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I tested nitrates today: < 30ppm, but still more than 25ppm.

Same level to report.

Did a water change (55g) last night.

I'm cleaning out the skimmer cup & riser daily, and it is very slimy compared to what normally comes out.

ORP has dropped after each dosing, but comes up again. Current reading at the moment is 297. The tank tends to be around 310 daily, and I just fed an hour ago.

Phosphate was .03 (Salifert), and I'm not running any type of GFO for the past 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[Billybeau1]

Yes Marc, I remember when I tried this stuff, ORP would tumble like a rock when dosing but would recover within 8 to 12 hrs or so.

Keep us posted.

 

[siskiou]

I just came across this thread and wanted to relate my AZNO3 experience.
It seems I'm the only one who ran into this problem.

I started dosing my 120G as instructed on the bottle and everything seemed okay until about day 9, when I noticed my soft corals looking distressed.
The water had a strong chemical smell, reminiscent of bleach. I thought some equipment was fouling up the water, and immediately took my sump offline, dumped dechlorinator into the water (that did help with the smell) and went off to the LFS for large quantities of pre-mixed saltwater.
Over the next two days I did massive water changes and everything recovered.
Tested all my equipment separately in a tub, but found nothing wrong.
I added one more dose of AZNO3 after people telling me that it could not be the culprit, but had the same effect again.

I still have most of the bottle left, but am too scared to try again.

 

[melev]

I smelled the solution today coincidentally, and it has no odor at all. I won't taste it though.

 

[siskiou]

Yeah, I have no idea what the stuff reacted with, but it was definitely the AZNO3.
I would have loved for it to work.

 

[Billybeau1]

Aw come on Marc....... Where is your pioneering spirit ? :lol:

 

[skydancer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10933438#post10933438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I smelled the solution today coincidentally, and it has no odor at all. I won't taste it though.

Which day of treatment are you on?

 

[melev]

Today completes 16 days of treatment, but it was at a slower pace then recommended on the bottle. I opened up my second bottle today (out of three total).

 

[skydancer]

Great, then you 're past the "9 day danger"
See you on Wed. I'll bring you my botlles then.

 

[iantoh]

hi there Carlo,

not meaning to add fuel to the disagreement, but i stand by Boomer's comments on the waterchange issue.

think of it this way, if youre stuck in a room filled with potentially poisonous smoke, would opening the windows or running out of the room into clean fresh air cause you any damage or concern to you? it wouldnt, but more likely bring immense relief and do you a world of good.

now relating this back to water changes, fresh NSW typically registers below 0.5ppm of nitrates, and if you grant that this is the typical nitrate level in the ocean's reefs, then replacing water that has elevated levels of nutrients (i.e nitrates, phosphates) should only do the reef inhabitants good, because its a reversion to parameters which they are used to, or genetically predisposed to by nature. of course, this assumes the water replacing what you take out in a water change is cleaner and has better parameters. it would be like a breathe of fresh air vis a vis my analogy above.

I have never witnessed a situation where a water change with fresh NSW or a good salt mix of proper salinity levels causing problems. if nitrates may be likened to a pollutant like smoke, that is toxic at elevated levels, i seriously wonder the logic behind slowly lowering the amount of pollutant.

on the other hand, if for example, you had lots of algaes thriving on elevated levels of nitrate, and a large water change with clean water suddenly limited the continued growth of these algae such that they die enmass and consequently cause issues by deleting oxygen levels as they breakdown or release spores, etc, then i guess that truly is a concern, but nothing which cannot easily be prevented or circumvented, and which though sparked by the water change, is more an extenuating circumstance affecting the result of a water change, rather than a general and standard reaction.

another thing i'd like to ask, if, for example, you come home to find your tank in a state of crashing or semi-crashing. what do you think is the safest thing youre likely to do to help save your reef? more likely than not, i think most people would opt for a large water change. and the history of RC and many other boards shows that more good than harm has been achieved with water changes.

well, pls do share with us the references supporting your claim as we could all stand to learn from differing viewpoints.

ian

ps: sorry to side-track from the main subject of this thread, being the use of AZ-NO3