Balancing heavy feeding with nutrient export

[jimrawr]

My last tank was not very successful in the SPS area due to not being able to really have that balancing act of feeding well but exporting the nutrients. What happened to me was that I ended up feeding light, but somehow GHA took hold and consumed all the PO4 and was really out competing everything else for the PO4. Lots of GFO, water changes, patients, sump cleaning etc didnt get tid of the algae.

So now in my current tank I am trying to think ahead so I dont fall into the same trap. Right now I have a few pieces of SPS that are doing so-so. A few have OK colors, a few look starved. NONE look awesome. The ones that look ok are pretty pale which indicates to me they are starving.

Here are my params:

sg 1.026
ph: 7.8-8.1
temp: 77-79
Ca:400 (using dosing pump)
Alk:8.0 (using dosing pump)
Mag:1200
PO4: ZERO (hanna)
Nitrates: ZERO
Lighting: 8x54" ATI Sunpower with all ATI Bulbs
Flow: 2 tunze 6095

I think my corals are starving, so I want to feed more. I was feeding about half a cube per day in my 75g stocked with

1 Yellow Tang
2 Chromis
3 Anthias
1 Clown
1 Diamond Goby
1 Fire Hawkfish

So lately I have gone over to feeding about one whole cube (rods food so not an exact measurement) per day. When I start feeding more, I can notice pretty quickly that cyano starts to become present, along with some diatoms. The LAST thing I want to do is have an algae outbreak because my last tank really exhausted me by fighting GHA to the point where I broke down the tank completely and took a few years off.

I think my SPS right now are starving, so I am trying to feed more. I *think* I am seeing better SPS due to this, but its really early (about a week or so since feeding more). So I guess my question is, whats the magic formula to feeding more to raise nitrates and po4 a bit, but avoiding algae. Do I need to plan ahead and start with something like an algae scrubber, or biopellets NOW, even though I do not currently have any issues? I clean the glass maybe one a week and there hardly anything on it really. It seems to me like adding biopellets at this point will only make things worse by stripping the tank? Or should I start immediately feeding more and add pellets at the same time?

I also started recently dosing AcroPower (aminos) because I haven't been doing regular water changes and want to see if I can have a healthy tank without changing water all that often (this part of the hobby I just don't enjoy one bit).

 

[PaleHorse]

tank pic, answer most peoples questions. Make sure lights are in the pic.

Your dosing acro power because you are not doing water changes....... What?

 

[jimrawr]

tank pic, answer most peoples questions. Make sure lights are in the pic.

Your dosing acro power because you are not doing water changes....... What?

Will take some pics later. Thought AcroPower was to replenish amino acids that usually get added back in with water changes. In a tank that's not doing many water changes, aminos needs to be added back somehow, no?

 

[jimrawr]

Heres a cell phone pic from about a week ago. Ill take better pics of the SPS frags later and post them.

 

[DavidinGA]

A simple ATS would do wonders for you I thk...

 

[alexx2208]

A simple ATS would do wonders for you I thk...

^ +1. I have to try one, but with my new tank coming in weeks, it's going on day 1.

Check this thread out. I think people show their setups too here.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420&highlight=ats

 

[rovster]

Not sure if you mentioned this but how old is the tank? It looks relatively young?

First of all, if you want long term success with those anthias, you need to feed more. Half a cube a day is just not going to cut it for those fish in my opinion. If this tank is new, feed what you have to to keep the fish healthy. You will just have to deal and accept the algae associated with the new tank.

I went through great lengths to clean my sand and rock and get it as sterile as possible and I'm still dealing with some brown snot algae. I've seen this before and with time the tank sort of balances out. If you have a good skimmer and are diligent with your maintenance, it should pass. I would be more concerned about keeping your pets healthy than dealing with some nuisance algae.

 

[jimrawr]

Here are some pics. Not the best photographer


This is a Lyng Sy cap that lost all its color

This was was shipped to be completely brown a few weeks ago. Got some purple in the tips now at least

Setosa

 

[jimrawr]

Not sure if you mentioned this but how old is the tank? It looks relatively young?

First of all, if you want long term success with those anthias, you need to feed more. Half a cube a day is just not going to cut it for those fish in my opinion. If this tank is new, feed what you have to to keep the fish healthy. You will just have to deal and accept the algae associated with the new tank.

I went through great lengths to clean my sand and rock and get it as sterile as possible and I'm still dealing with some brown snot algae. I've seen this before and with time the tank sort of balances out. If you have a good skimmer and are diligent with your maintenance, it should pass. I would be more concerned about keeping your pets healthy than dealing with some nuisance algae.

Yeah the tank is about 5 months old now.

Agreed on feeding more, thats another reason why I doubled up as well. Anthias were added a few weeks ago. Dont agree on allowing algae to get a foot hold... algae is unsightly and really takes the enjoyment out of the hobby for me when it gets unmanageable

 

[Blueline12]

First of all you are going to have to get rid of the notion that you do not want to see any algae at all. Just like the ocean, algae will grow even if it is only a small amount. That's just how it goes. There are ebb and flows with algae.

Secondly, heaving feeding and no water changes do not go hand in hand IMO. I feed heavily twice a day mysis, pellets, algae sheets, caviar for about 13 fish in a 180g.

I recommend heavy skimming with a high end skimmer and some type of other Po4 reducer. I prefer microbacter and vodka dosing or GFO may work for you. It's your choice. Do this with weekly water changes and start feeding more and your algae should never get too bad.

 

[Reefvet]

I also started recently dosing AcroPower (aminos) because I haven't been doing regular water changes and want to see if I can have a healthy tank without changing water all that often (this part of the hobby I just don't enjoy one bit).

After 40+ years in this hobby I can pretty much guarantee you're not going to have an algae free tank with that approach.

In fact AcroPower will boost many things that algae just love. Without water changes you'll build up an imbalance quickly and algae will be the first problem of many.

 

[Moser]

Your corals look starved. Either that or freshly shipped?.
Also, your rock doesn't seem to have much life.

Accept that you will have to have some light algae cover, otherwise your tank will not thrive.
Use snails, urchins etc to help you and manage your phosphate, with regular changes to GFO etc. and you should be fine.

Some nuisance algae will eventually get in and be difficult to shift. This is the case with every tank I have seen. The trick is to grow your corals faster and it will never be a concern.

Mo

 

[discocarp]

Zero Nitrates? Zero Phosphates? No to bio pellets. No to GFO. No to a refugium. No to an ATS. You don't need nutrient export, you need to feed more. Just watch your parameters and if they start going up, then think about nutrient export.

You're worried about the problem you don't have right now instead of the problem you do have.

 

[saltyair]

Water changes will always help export, keep a routine for w/c. In my experience a good skimmer and bio pellets work well when you have minimal rock work.
Look into the aio pellets.
Your system will keep maturing

After 40+ years in this hobby I can pretty much guarantee you're not going to have an algae free tank with that approach.

In fact AcroPower will boost many things that algae just love. Without water changes you'll build up an imbalance quickly and algae will be the first problem of many.

 

[MisterP]

Amino acids , like acropower are not meant to replace water changes. Amino acids in very, very basic terms are building blocks for living organisms. Again in very easy to understand terms amino acids are what make up the food your animals eat.

Amino acids to my knowledge do not exist in artificial saltwater mixes and do not correlate to doing water changes.

Water changes are very important. I would remove all but a few biopellets and go and feed heavier. Not all at once but instead of feeding 1 daily feed 2 times daily or 3 or 4 times daily. ONLY FEED WHAT YOUR FISH CAN CONSUME. For instance instead of throwing a whole cube of food in, chip off little pieces and do a little at a time. If after half a cube you see food floating around but nobody eating stop. Wait 4 hrs and repeat but use less food.

Also, if I were you read all you can on GFO, biopellets, GAC, water changes, phosphate, nitrate, etc.

You might be surprised about how little you know. And that is not meant to imply anything. I know after 6 months of reading every Advanced Aquarists, Reefkeeping Mag., Coral Mag., and a ton of research on RC I have the knowledge and experience to give back. By no means am I an expert but if you sit down and just read for an hour each night you'll be surprised how quickly you learn new information.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Good information. Thanks

 

[DavidinGA]

My last tank was not very successful in the SPS area due to not being able to really have that balancing act of feeding well but exporting the nutrients. What happened to me was that I ended up feeding light, but somehow GHA took hold and consumed all the PO4 and was really out competing everything else for the PO4. Lots of GFO, water changes, patients, sump cleaning etc didnt get tid of the algae.

So now in my current tank I am trying to think ahead so I dont fall into the same trap. Right now I have a few pieces of SPS that are doing so-so. A few have OK colors, a few look starved. NONE look awesome. The ones that look ok are pretty pale which indicates to me they are starving.

Here are my params:

sg 1.026
ph: 7.8-8.1
temp: 77-79
Ca:400 (using dosing pump)
Alk:8.0 (using dosing pump)
Mag:1200
PO4: ZERO (hanna)
Nitrates: ZERO
Lighting: 8x54" ATI Sunpower with all ATI Bulbs
Flow: 2 tunze 6095

I think my corals are starving, so I want to feed more. I was feeding about half a cube per day in my 75g stocked with

1 Yellow Tang
2 Chromis
3 Anthias
1 Clown
1 Diamond Goby
1 Fire Hawkfish

So lately I have gone over to feeding about one whole cube (rods food so not an exact measurement) per day. When I start feeding more, I can notice pretty quickly that cyano starts to become present, along with some diatoms. The LAST thing I want to do is have an algae outbreak because my last tank really exhausted me by fighting GHA to the point where I broke down the tank completely and took a few years off.

I think my SPS right now are starving, so I am trying to feed more. I *think* I am seeing better SPS due to this, but its really early (about a week or so since feeding more). So I guess my question is, whats the magic formula to feeding more to raise nitrates and po4 a bit, but avoiding algae. Do I need to plan ahead and start with something like an algae scrubber, or biopellets NOW, even though I do not currently have any issues? I clean the glass maybe one a week and there hardly anything on it really. It seems to me like adding biopellets at this point will only make things worse by stripping the tank? Or should I start immediately feeding more and add pellets at the same time?

I also started recently dosing AcroPower (aminos) because I haven't been doing regular water changes and want to see if I can have a healthy tank without changing water all that often (this part of the hobby I just don't enjoy one bit).

Again I'm a fan of algae scrubbers and would suggest you add one.

Stop dosing amino acids; you likely are adding enough of those through your feeding (or you will once you increase your feedings). Imo amino acid dosing is a marketing ploy w/o any benefits.


I have zero algae issues in my 210gal with 20 fish and can really feed all the "bad" foods I want (flake food cringe) and still not have any nuisance algae in the display. The ONLY reason I can do that is because of my ats though. Back when I ran gfo and feed minimally I constantly had algae issues (always had brown sand). Now life is grand running an ATS and I'm no longer spending money on chemical/commercial solutions when the natural approach simply works better.


*edit I forgot to add that since running my ats I never do water changes now either. My NO3 stays at zero and my PO4 tops out around 0.04. My total filtration system is - sro3000int skimmer, diy ATS, live sand and live rock. I could probably do away with the skimmer now if I wanted to but I like a little redundancy and extra protection I suppose....

 

[john s. rosa]

Tank is to young to support SPS. Wait until you get good coralline growth. May take several months

 

[Moser]

Back when I ran gfo and feed minimally I constantly had algae issues (always had brown sand). Now life is grand running an ATS and I'm no longer spending money on chemical/commercial solutions when the natural approach simply works better.
..

Are you implying that GFO caused this?, because clearly the vast majority use GFO and don't have such problems!.

Mo

 

[DavidinGA]

Are you implying that GFO caused this?, because clearly the vast majority use GFO and don't have such problems!.

Mo

No. I found that the gfo wasn't pulling enough though and it costs a lot to use. Plus, it doesn't get rid of NO3.

With the ats I get rid of NO3 and PO4 and it costs nothing to run compared to buying gfo media...