Balancing heavy feeding with nutrient export

[rovster]

Tank is to young to support SPS. Wait until you get good coralline growth. May take several months

Wow, come out guns blazing on the first post, LOL! This is such a misconception. I added my first SPS right after cycling and they were fine and have been fine. (I also added an nem which is another no-no and that one is fine as well). Sure, some tanks may take a little longer, but as soon as water is stable, SPS should be fine. I think the OP just needs to tweak things to get them to color up. Will take some time, several months likely, but I think it should work out assuming the proper steps are taken.

Just some inspiration for the OP. Here is bleached out aweful looking frag back when I was running to clean a tank....

This frag......


Turned into that Crayola piece in the middle.....sorry about the crappy pics....




This mille.....


Getting color.....


And settled into this..... (phone pic)


What did I do? Added a LOT more bioload and started adding all kinds of coral foods.

Notice the algae in the first pale picture. When I was getting the more saturated colors, I did not have algae even though I was throwing a ton more crap in the tank. Go figure!!!

 

[markalot]

Nice progression rovster. I hope one of my millis is finally going to look like that last pic.

I really think the additional food greatly increases the population of micro-cleaners. When my algae problems fade I also notice the hundreds of collonista snails that work over the rocks at night along with hundreds of worms in the sand and all kinds of critters on parts of the glass. I do worry I'm pushing my tank to the limit but good skimming and regular water changes seem to keep it stable.

 

[rovster]

Thanks. That mille continued to color up after that pic. It looks like an insane sunset mille and started to get blue tips and peachy undertones (according to my non-colorblind reef friends). Then I got AEFW and treated and transferred to my new tank, so now it looks like the last picture

 

[jimrawr]

Thanks for the posts guys. I know how important water changes are, but they are DREADED for me. Also, I know a lot of people suggest them, but there are others with extremely beautiful tanks that do not do water changes. So, its quite obvious that you can find success BOTH ways. I want to try as long as I can without doing water changes this time around. If all else is tried and it becomes clear that I cannot personally succeed without doing water changes, then I will start doing them.

I am pretty sure right now my problem is that I need to feed the tank more and get po4 and nitrates up a bit. I am just trying to plan ahead so I can sustain those levels with heavy feeding and a good nutrient export instead of waiting for algae to grow and then trying to address the issue after its already began.

DavidinGA - I agree with you on the ATS. I think I may end up buying one of Santa Monicas HOG scrubbers. I found GFO to be ineffective against GHA on another tank I had as well and started using a ATS on that one.

Reefvet - Thanks yeah I will keep an eye out on results from acropower. It had some really strong reviews and info here on the forums. If I feel like its causing a problem I will stop.

Blueline12 - Yeah I was thinking of trying prodibio or microbacter, but dont see a reason to start until po4 and no3 get a bit higher. Would you recommend dosing microbacter BEFORE having elevated po4?

Rovster - Beautiful pics, thanks for the inspiration!

 

[reefmoose]

with beating the proverbial dead horse... water changes in smaller more frequent doses help with the upkeep of algae for me. the other thing i know to be the dead horse is lighting. i was recently introduced to "par" (this involves getting a meter( ie good for the tool buying mechanic)( then research Photo-synthetically active radiation )as to what is best ratings for your coral. I run t5 so some corals i will not have success with. the lack of color could be from bleaching do to to much par. the other good reason for this is it tells you when your lights take a dump and need changed.

 

[tmb22]

Thanks for the posts guys. I know how important water changes are, but they are DREADED for me. Also, I know a lot of people suggest them, but there are others with extremely beautiful tanks that do not do water changes. So, its quite obvious that you can find success BOTH ways. I want to try as long as I can without doing water changes this time around. If all else is tried and it becomes clear that I cannot personally succeed without doing water changes, then I will start doing them.

I am pretty sure right now my problem is that I need to feed the tank more and get po4 and nitrates up a bit. I am just trying to plan ahead so I can sustain those levels with heavy feeding and a good nutrient export instead of waiting for algae to grow and then trying to address the issue after its already began.

DavidinGA - I agree with you on the ATS. I think I may end up buying one of Santa Monicas HOG scrubbers. I found GFO to be ineffective against GHA on another tank I had as well and started using a ATS on that one.

Reefvet - Thanks yeah I will keep an eye out on results from acropower. It had some really strong reviews and info here on the forums. If I feel like its causing a problem I will stop.

Blueline12 - Yeah I was thinking of trying prodibio or microbacter, but dont see a reason to start until po4 and no3 get a bit higher. Would you recommend dosing microbacter BEFORE having elevated po4?

Rovster - Beautiful pics, thanks for the inspiration!

I can definitely understand why you dread water changes. And you're right about some people having beautiful tanks that do water changes very rarely or not at all. Though this is true, it's very rare to find a successful reefer who doesn't stick to some kind of regular water change schedule. My guess is that you won't have success without doing water changes. But by all means, you won't know unless you try!

However, my advice is that you should try to make water changes as easy and enjoyable as humanly possible. By doing this, you hopefully won't dread doing them so much. I hated doing water changes too, but then developed a system to do them, and I actually ENJOY doing them now. I actually looking forward to water change day.

One thing I did is to play music while you're doing it. It's easier to get in the zone and enjoy the process when you're listening to music you like.

Another thing that is HUGE for me was getting a magnet scraper, then getting a razor attachment for it. I have this and this. They are incredible together.

Other than that, just think of anything else that will help the process... Add a pump to your water mixing station to lift the new water into the tank for you... Buy a long tube that siphons the dirty tank water directly into the toilet or outside... Get a stool to make reaching into the tank easier... You know your tank best, so think of things that will make your process easier.

If you don't enjoy the process, you're much less likely to do it, and you're much more likely to have a nasty, aglae ridden tank. Hope this helps!

 

[rovster]

Not many SPS tanks out there that are going without waterchanges. I think those that are are probably VERY mature systems that have stabilized. As far as water changes, not sure why you dread them. Can you explain how you do them?

My advice is look into how you can make waterchanges easier. If you are doing full manual with siphon, consider getting a rolling bucket and use a pump to both pump water in and out. That's what I do. I'm in the process of building a water change station which will make it even easier for me.

You may have to spend a little money, but with the right set-up, waterchanges do not have to be such a "chore". Frankly, I like doing water changes because it makes me feel I'm doing something positive for my tank. I do them weekly, and its no issue. There are even ways of automating it if you wanted to take it that far.

Edit: tmb beat me to it, LOL!

 

[horseplay]

My suggestion is turning off GFO, lower the light and feed more. There is no need to run GFO when PO4 is not measureable. Increase feeding slowly.

 

[tmb22]

Not many SPS tanks out there that are going without waterchanges. I think those that are are probably VERY mature systems that have stabilized. As far as water changes, not sure why you dread them. Can you explain how you do them?

My advice is look into how you can make waterchanges easier. If you are doing full manual with siphon, consider getting a rolling bucket and use a pump to both pump water in and out. That's what I do. I'm in the process of building a water change station which will make it even easier for me.

You may have to spend a little money, but with the right set-up, waterchanges do not have to be such a "chore". Frankly, I like doing water changes because it makes me feel I'm doing something positive for my tank. I do them weekly, and its no issue. There are even ways of automating it if you wanted to take it that far.

Edit: tmb beat me to it, LOL!

Hahahaha, +10000000

 

[usingthejohn]

In my system, im pretty heavily stocked (about 20 fish) and 150lbs LR. I feed heavy (pellets 2x a day. Rods or lrs reef frenzy once a day. Skimmer is a cones co3.

Phos is high at 0.2. Nitrates are 20. But the few sps in my tank are doing ok. However I do weekly 30g wcs and may end up carbon dosing if phosphates don't come down. I'm sure my sps may do better in someone else's tank. Or they may not. However I pay attention to my tank and see what works for it.

Quite simply the best advice I received was this: don't replicate anyone else's tank. See what works for your tank, and what you're willing to do daily and weekly. Find that balance and then your tank will get better. It's worked for me thus far. I hope it can work for you too

 

[jimrawr]

Usually I would use a vacuum for the sand bed, pump out water into a 5g bucket. Walk that over the the toilet to dump it then start again. Then to put water back in, fill the 5g bucket with fresh salt mix and pump it back in 5g at a time.

The biggest problem I have is there is no where close to put the waste water, so so changing 20 gallons = walking back and forth 8 times carrying 5g buckets of water. Its not fun If I get a long *** tube, it will be 30 feet to the sink and I dont even know how that siphon would work since the sink is the same height as the tank almost.

How can you siphon into a toilet? Seems that would require the help of someone else to make sure the tube in the toilet doesn't fall out and create a disaster..?

If I had a way to easily dispose of the water, and easily move water from outside the house (mixing station is outside) to inside near the tank without so much effort, it wouldn't be such a drag.

 

[MisterP]

Your tank is only 75g.....don't change 20g if you have zero N and P.

With low nutrients changing 5-10 gallons WEEKLY should get you by, especially since you run a dosing pump.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[tmb22]

Usually I would use a vacuum for the sand bed, pump out water into a 5g bucket. Walk that over the the toilet to dump it then start again. Then to put water back in, fill the 5g bucket with fresh salt mix and pump it back in 5g at a time.

The biggest problem I have is there is no where close to put the waste water, so so changing 20 gallons = walking back and forth 8 times carrying 5g buckets of water. Its not fun If I get a long *** tube, it will be 30 feet to the sink and I dont even know how that siphon would work since the sink is the same height as the tank almost.

How can you siphon into a toilet? Seems that would require the help of someone else to make sure the tube in the toilet doesn't fall out and create a disaster..?

If I had a way to easily dispose of the water, and easily move water from outside the house (mixing station is outside) to inside near the tank without so much effort, it wouldn't be such a drag.

Oh man, that sounds terrible. I don't blame you for not wanting to do water changes. If I were you, I'd build a super cheap "skateboard" of sorts at home depot. Just a simple slab of wood mounted on a few heavy duty casters. Then get a large plastic container (something you might find at Target) to transport the water to and from the tank. For the toilet, it would be best to have a cheap pump and tubing pump the water from the container into the toilet. If jamming the tube into the toilet makes you feel gross, just hold the tube above the surface of the water and let it pump. I usually just jam it in and do something else while it's pumping water into the toilet.

Since your mixing container is outside, getting the "Skateboard" there might prove difficult, so I'd try to push the container as close as you can to your mixing station, then use the pump and tubing to pump water into the transport container.

Might cost $30 or so, but it's well worth it.

 

[rovster]

Skateboard? LOL! You can buy a base with wheels for any brute trashcan. I would suggest the 20 gallon one for the OP

 

[tmb22]

Skateboard? LOL! You can buy a base with wheels for any brute trashcan. I would suggest the 20 gallon one for the OP

Lol, you and your fancy Brute containers

 

[Moser]

No. I found that the gfo wasn't pulling enough though and it costs a lot to use. Plus, it doesn't get rid of NO3.

With the ats I get rid of NO3 and PO4 and it costs nothing to run compared to buying gfo media...

ok, so you just didn't use enough?. Can't blame the GFO for that?.
ATS use electricity to light them. It's all swings and roundabouts"¦.

They work well. So do macro algae sumps and even Xenia sumps.

Choose your weapon. The key is to use it properly"¦.

Mo

 

[Moser]

I run t5 so some corals i will not have success with.

That doesn't make sense to me. Any ideas why?.

Thanks
Mo

 

[DavidinGA]

ok, so you just didn't use enough?. Can't blame the GFO for that?.
ATS use electricity to light them. It's all swings and roundabouts"¦.

They work well. So do macro algae sumps and even Xenia sumps.

Choose your weapon. The key is to use it properly"¦.

Mo

It's not that it didn't work; it simply didn't work as well. Gfo also has the annoying issue that the amount of PO4 pulled out varies by the age of the gfo (so you get varying fluctuations). With an ATS you have a nice constant PO4/NO3 reduction all the time. The less variables in this hobby the better imo (at least we can control some things).

 

[Moser]

It's not that it didn't work; it simply didn't work as well. Gfo also has the annoying issue that the amount of PO4 pulled out varies by the age of the gfo (so you get varying fluctuations). With an ATS you have a nice constant PO4/NO3 reduction all the time. The less variables in this hobby the better imo (at least we can control some things).

Hmm. Nothing rips phosphate out as well as GFO.
Lanthanum is close, but an ATS is not!. Not saying that ATS don't work well, they do, but chemicals like GFO literally rip out phosphate. Not using enough is a different story.

Having a smooth reduction in phos/ nitrate is a different thing, but if you want to strip phosphate- don't question the ability of GFO to do it!. There are other benefits to GFO, like the space required to use it!.

For my tank, I would need a massive ATS 7x5ft was quoted, or about 15 vertical screens, so I wouldn't have the necessary space. You also need to clean the screens at least weekly, bulb costs, but you could buy expensive leds with an upfront cost"¦.

Just a thought...
Mo

 

[DavidinGA]

Hmm. Nothing rips phosphate out as well as GFO.
Lanthanum is close, but an ATS is not!. Not saying that ATS don't work well, they do, but chemicals like GFO literally rip out phosphate. Not using enough is a different story.

Having a smooth reduction in phos/ nitrate is a different thing, but if you want to strip phosphate- don't question the ability of GFO to do it!. There are other benefits to GFO, like the space required to use it!.

For my tank, I would need a massive ATS 7x5ft was quoted, or about 15 vertical screens, so I wouldn't have the necessary space. You also need to clean the screens at least weekly, bulb costs, but you could buy expensive leds with an upfront cost"¦.

Just a thought...
Mo

7x5ft? no freaking way! What size is your tank?

I have a 210gal and my double sided screen is like 12x8".


The new generation of ats screens are sized according to how much you feed your tank not on tank size/volume.