Bangaii Breeding Behavior

[Tennyson]

I recently got four Bangaii Cardinalfish and was wondering what the breeding behavior of a pair would be. I was also wondering when they are mature enough to breed. My largest one is about 1 1/2 inches long, the smallest is about 1 1/4 inches long. Are they sexually mature?

One of the smaller ones is a bully towards all the others, and the others are all ok with eachother. Does that mean that they are all males and the bully is a male and thats why he's bullying them? Or are they too young to be aggresive. Could the tank be too small, and he/she is fighting for territory? Its a 46 gallon tank.

I also see some strange behavior between two of them. One will try to get near the other, then they will both puff their pouches in their mouths and stay near eachother for about 10 seconds with their pouches puffed out and their mouth open. And one time, one of them seemed to gently nip at the side of the other, but not in an aggresive way. Is this breeding behavior? Or are they just warning eachother or something?

 

[Tennyson]

Bump anyone?

Well, I was watching my bangaii during feeding and noticed that the smallest one wasn't eating. In fact, it hasn't been eating since yesterday. I don't think its holding eggs because its too small (1 1/4 inches long). Its also away from the other bangaiis. So is it holding eggs? Is it full for one day because I have been feeding them mysid until they were full twice a day. Or what? Could it be sick?

Thanks

 

[catdoc]

Not too sure that 4 bangaii in a 46 gallon tank will get along well. Watch for signs of two dominant fish, that's your pair. You'll need to remove the two inferior fish or they'll likely be harassed/stressed/killed. I actually never have seen anything between my male/female pair except for relative indifference, except when I see that the male is carrying. They're pretty quick and sneaky when they spawn, haven't picked up any cues on that happening yet.

 

[Tennyson]

Yeah, I only bought four because I had no idea which might be a male or female. But I am going to remove the others once I've gotten my pair, but I'm still not certain if they might all be males. There seems to be one dominant one that bullies all the others. And I'm not sure what size they are when they are sexually mature.

 

[carlso63]

Here you go:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1289671


The female is the agressor for mating behavior. She will casually chase after the male and get right up next to him and "tremble".

What you are seeing is likely just a dominant male starting to exert himself on the others; who may be males or even females at this point.

1.5 inches is probably the beginning of sexual maturity with these fish; so you may have a maturing fish in with others not matured yet. As long as you don't see any one fish getting continually harassed or forced into a corner then I wouldn't remove anyone just yet.

And if you get a spawn chances are you won't see it - it is all over in literally about 5 seconds. However, the male's mouth will change shape noticeably - he will look like he has a mouth ful of marbles or something. The change will be very obvious; don't worry you won't miss that!

 

[Atticus]

If the smallest one is seperated from the rest. Remove it. It will not be accepted, it will not be allowed to feed, and it will eventually be stressed to death. Once one leaves the group it is over. Bangaii will do a tell tale mating "dance" as described above. The female will also show a noticable "lump" in her abdomin when carrying eggs. It will be further back than her typical "full belly" appearance. She will chase the male to her favorite spot in the tank, shiver, and puff her mouth along side him. She may do this for days before, but she gets really serious the night before.

 

[Tennyson]

How did you get this forum back? It disapeared after a couple of days.

Its been a while since I last updated it. But the "runt of the litter" died about a week or so ago. I was going to remove it, but I had to go to school. I have had my three for about a week. And I got what I think was my pair? They are always close to eachother, and I remeasured them, they are just around 2 inches long. And I haven't seen any aggresion between the other third one.

I still see that behavior when both of their pouches for holding eggs puff out, and they get near eachother with their pouches in this postition. I'm not sure if they could be two males having a dominance competition, or if they are inexperienced, and don't know how to do the mating dance.

Atticus, you said that she will chase the male to her favorite spot and shiver then puff her mouth. Both of them do the puffing, but no shimmys/shivers. Is this the same thing if there are no shimmys and they both just puff their mouths out? Will they still breed? are they warming up for the real thing? or are they just inexperienced and they don't know what they are doing yet, because this is probably their first time?

And last, should I remove the third bangaii, oir let it stay for a while and see what happens. I'll try to post a pic of the pair later.

Thanks for everything.

 

[Tennyson]

And thanks Carlso63. I've read that thread hundreds of times before you suggested it. Its a really really good thread, I learned alot from it.

 

[Atticus]

A true pair will spend 90% of their time side by side and when they do split it will be to eat and only for a few seconds. If you are seeing this behavior with 2 of them, remove the third or they will. The mouth puffing could be aggressive as they will sometime lock jaws during a fight. It is fairly rare, but I would watch them closely.

 

[Tennyson]

Well they do spend 90% of their time together, usually not more than 6 inches away, except during feeding, like you said. I;ll remove the other bangaii as soon as possible, but I haven't seen any aggresion done towards it.

Heres the aggresive one, or what I'm guessing would be the female. It's banner fin is about 1/5 inches shorter than the others. The other's belly isn't as fat, but it doesn't eat that much either. How will I know if it has developed eggs?

I'm not sure the image will turn out right, it'll be my first time posting.

 

[Atticus]

Eggs develop Above the anal fin.

 

[Tennyson]

So, like right above the fin on the bottom left of the photo? So it must not have eggs yet. What should I do to prepare for this besides the other tank to raise the fry. I mean, like, should I feed her alot so she gets nutrition? I only feed mysid, once to three times every two days, shes always excited for food.

Heres a picture, just wanted to make sure its a female, I'm about 90% she is.

 

[Tennyson]

And heres what I am supposing is the male. Its banner fin seems to be more erect (the photos above, her banner fin is always in that position)

He's also pretty skinny. I don't think hes getting enough nutrition. Like I said, I feed mysid once to three times over two days. I'm trying to stop feeding one to two times a day, because hes not been interested in food that much, and catdoc said that they will become less and less interested in eating, as I feed them often. Is that correct?

 

[Tennyson]

And hears the bangaii pair. Sorry if I'm going overboard with the pics, I'm having so much fun, and its such a huge revelation for me (I never looked up the directions on RC)

Male is on the right, female on the left, according to what I said in previous posts.

 

[catdoc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11832110#post11832110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tennyson
He's also pretty skinny. I don't think hes getting enough nutrition. Like I said, I feed mysid once to three times over two days. I'm trying to stop feeding one to two times a day, because hes not been interested in food that much, and catdoc said that they will become less and less interested in eating, as I feed them often. Is that correct?

Hmmm....I must have confused you on that one. Keep feeding for now. If he's skinny, he'll need to fatten up before he'll carry the eggs to full-term. (Rod's food is GREAT for spawning fish, imo.) If he's undernourished, he'll probably just eat the eggs. The only time my male is not interested in eating is when he DOES have a mouthful of eggs. In his case, he seems to be eating every other spawn and I think it's because he just gets to thin after a 3-week fast carrying eggs. Ideally, I should remove him to his own tank to recover after a successful "pregnancy" (or whatever you call it!) but he's tough to catch. I've only managed to catch him twice when he was carrying babies--got 20 babies right now in a grow-out tank in fact. I wasn't planning to raise another brood, but once I'd netted him I threw together the grow-out tank and started the brine shrimp hatchery on the spot. They're just over 2 weeks old and eating like little pigs!

Good luck with yours. Mine were about that size when I bought them and they started spawning within a very short time--male even carried the first spawn to full-term so I got lucky there. I hear that they often eat the first few until they get the hang of it.

 

[Atticus]

If you want fry from the pair you need to feed them to "saturation" (will not eat anymore) 1-2 times a day with 2-3 daily feedings. This will fatten them up and it has a two fold bonus. They become healthier fish and produce more/stronger fry.

 

[Tennyson]

Yeah, thats exactly what I did, but they seem to all have lost their appetites. They'll go after the food, and be hesitant to eat it. They take a bite, then spit it right out. I tried waiting 1 1/2 days for them to get their appetites back, but they have both lost interest in mysid shrimp.

Is there another food I can feed them that they'd eat also, thats not live? My lfs only mentioned mysid shrimp.

Would live brine shrimp get them going again, like it does with clown gobys if they are not eating?

Ill try feeding them once more and see what happens. And if I feed them mysid every day or so, and all of it gets eaten, does that raise my nitrites, or nitrates, or any other bad thing to have in the tank?

 

[Atticus]

Any dead organic matter in a tank will go through the break down cycle of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate....

 

[Tennyson]

I fed them mysid again this morning and they seemed to have gained their appetite back, though not much.