Basement sump / equipment room, or below tank, for large reef?

[nsamouroux]

I've got a 360g display that I'm in the process of setting up, but I've got a decision to make (what, only one? :rolleye1... I have an unfinished 1/2 basement / cellar of corts directly below where the aquarium will reside, but I can't decide if I want to put my sumps / refugium / equipment down there, or keep it below the stand as I've always done with my other systems throughout the house. The way I see it is the basement "fish room" has the following advantages / disadvantages:

Advantages:
- out of sight, out of mind
- a free chiller of sorts, since it's below ground and Seattle never gets too hot
- less potential mess in the event of a flood (sump pump in basement plumbed to the sewer)

Disadvantages:
- Again, out of sight, out of mind. More of a pain to do regular maintenance
- humidity issues. Unfinished basement traps moisture and could cause problems without adding lots of ventilation / dehumidifiers
- distance / head pressure for return pump. I'll need a Hammerhead to pump up from the basement, or a Dart / Snapper if below the tank inside the stand
- increased equipment costs / power costs and more plumbing with a chance of failure.

Anyone else have any feedback here? The stand has MORE than enough room to house all of the equipment (8' x 3' footprint), but I'll have to cut out a stainless steel "shelf" to open it up. I'll be adding lateral / shear bracing to the stand anyways, so that's a minor hassle.

Pic of the stand

 

[noahm]

If you have the room in the stand, you might as well use it just so you don't have to hassle w/plumbing etc. from below, but you never have as much room as you think in the stand. If you had the ability to create a fish room on the same level, that is best IMO. However, If I were you, I would make a ridiculously huge sump or series of sumps in the basement out of the rubbermaid stock tanks. One for equipment, and one as a mega fuge LR/frag tank etc. That way you get the advantage major bio filtration outside the DT plus the stand is freed up for junk like food, nets, etc. Also you can store salt, RO/DI and do all of your WC in the basement and not drip and worry about making a mess of your house

 

[JimW]

Put it in the basement. No noise, no water issues in the living area of the house, and room for everything. Working under tank is always a real hassle.

 

[nsamouroux]

The noise wasn't really a concern for me (my parrot makes FAR more noise than the tank ever will!) but the failsafe / plumbing / pump head pressure issues is my primary dilemma. Noahm is correct, I was planning on using two 100g or 150g rubbermaid totes (first one being an equipment / skimmer chamber, the second being a refugium / live rock pile). If I end up using the space under the stand I would convert my 100g acrylic reef to a large sump / refugium. The 100g tank would only take up about 1/3 of the area underneath the stand, so I would have plenty of room for my external skimmer, external return pumps, etc. Overall, I'm trying to subscribe to the idea of the "K.I.S.S Reef tank" (Keep it simple, stupid!). Still, I recognize that I'll never be able to stop tinkering with it :lol:

 

[JimW]

Having worked under my stand for 20 years, I would love to have a basement to put my equipment in. Aside from a little plumbing and larger return pump, I just can't see where having it under the tank is a big advantage. The humidity issue is going to have to be addressed regardless of where all the water is kept. When it comes to water storage, salt mixing, storage of goods and equipment, the basement has to be easier.

Are you single? My wife likes me to K.I.S.S. too. Loosely translated, no noise and no mess in the house.

Either way you choose, I am still envious. If I had the basement, it would definitely be "the fish room".

Looks like that will be an awesome setup!

 

[albano]

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION.....Can your floor handle the weight???????? If you're talking 360g to over 500g, you're talking between 4000 to over 6000 lbs, in 24 sq. ft.? First priority is checking out structure! that weight will require an engineers professional opinion. BTW, I have 300g in my living room, with a 150g sump in basement...love it!

 

[nsamouroux]

Oh, the floor can certainly handle it. It's a 1/2 basement, so one of the poured foundation walls is directly under the back side of the tank. The floor joists are running perpendicular to the tank, and I've put a 12' long x 12" tall x 6" wide support beam spanning those joists under the front of the aquarium. I might end up putting blocks between each of the joists above the foundation wall, just because I'm neurotic, but it's not really necessary. The beam is held up by three 6x6 posts with the steel post footings bolted into the cement floor of the basement. My house was also built in the mid-40s, so the lumber (floor joists in particular) is all hardwood and true to dimensions (a 2" width joist is actually 2" wide, not this 1.5" stuff they use nowadays!)

 

[stingythingy45]

JMO,
But I can't see why anybody that has the room to do so would NOT have a basement sump.I'm a big fan of not bowing down or crawling on my knees for sump maintenance.All my testing and water changes are done downstairs.Bo spills on the floor in the living room.And noise,all I have is a trickle sound that's barely audible with the TV on.
The only real issue is humidity.But that can be fixed quite easily with either a dehumidifier or an exhaust fan.
Trust me,there's more advantages than disadvantages in setting up a basement sump.

 

[nsamouroux]

I would hate to run a dehumidifier that size in the Seattle area! That power bill would be obscene :lol:. Truthfully, I prefer to put it all in the basement as well, but I was having trouble with the humidity issues and the idea of a Hammerhead pump or similar as a return since it's almost 12' of head pressure back to the top of the tank for the returns. On the other hand, someone local has a Dolphin Ampmaster 5500 pump for a very good price, which would be perfect... I can always put in ventilation fans I suppose and vent them outside. The main benefit I saw (aside from space / noise / etc) with the basement is that even on those rare 100*F days in Seattle, the basement gets no warmer than about 65*F. Having a large volume sump down there means that I'll never need a chiller, which should more than make up for the monstrous return pump I'll need to get

 

[sarmo]

for what it's worth i had the same issue. almost the same size tank, except mine is 3 feet deep. i had all the stuff under the tank for 4 yrs and then moved it all to the crawl space. i used 2 150gallon rubbermaid tubs for a fuge and a equipment tub. i haven't had a heat issue since i made the change. i have however had to add a heater because the main display can drop down to 70degrees when it's cold out. i have some extra humidity but am planning on just adding a humidistat controlled fan to the basement.
i love having all the extra room. i have another tub for mixing change water and a 100 tank for RODI. now i can do all my weekly stuff standing up not bent over. the noise is much less and the heat is much less.
having all the extra room has been great for me and i'd never want to go back!!!!
good luck with your choice but i'd say move it all the the basement.

 

[JimW]

+1:lol:

 

[JCURRY@WESKETCH]

Put the refugium under the tank and a covered sump in the basement to eliminate the humidty. If you raise the sump up off the floor you might might be able to reduce the head pressure on the pump and not have to run a hammerhead.

 

[stingythingy45]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15696222#post15696222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nsamouroux
I would hate to run a dehumidifier that size in the Seattle area! That power bill would be obscene :lol:. Truthfully, I prefer to put it all in the basement as well, but I was having trouble with the humidity issues and the idea of a Hammerhead pump or similar as a return since it's almost 12' of head pressure back to the top of the tank for the returns. On the other hand, someone local has a Dolphin Ampmaster 5500 pump for a very good price, which would be perfect... I can always put in ventilation fans I suppose and vent them outside. The main benefit I saw (aside from space / noise / etc) with the basement is that even on those rare 100*F days in Seattle, the basement gets no warmer than about 65*F. Having a large volume sump down there means that I'll never need a chiller, which should more than make up for the monstrous return pump I'll need to get

Why not just get a GenX mak 4 pump?

 

[tom obrecht]

My vote is in the basement and build a stand to set sump ect so it is at a comfortable working level. Will make life much easier! Click on my red house for pics of my old sump room.

 

[nsamouroux]

I'm working towards the basement "fish room", thanks everyone for being my sounding board! Hopefully today I'll be picking up a Dolphin Ampmaster 5500 pump which will give me my goal of 2,000 - 2500 gph through the overflow at 10-12' of vertical head pressure. Stingything, I may be wrong but aren't the Gen-X pumps only 1200gph or so? At 10+ feet of vertical pressure I doubt the thing will even run. I'm prettymuch needing at minimum a Reeflo Barracuda, this Dolphin pump I'm looking at, or a Reeflo Hammerhead pump at the upper end of things (Hammerhead would give me roughly 3,000 gph which is more than I want to run through the sump / overflows).

 

[mike660r]

I had equipment under a tank once. Now I have a full blown fish room and I would never go back. You are going to deal with larger amounts of water and nasties on a tank of your size. It is so much easier to clean up and move around when you have a fish room.

 

[stingythingy45]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15698612#post15698612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nsamouroux
Stingything, I may be wrong but aren't the Gen-X pumps only 1200gph or so? At 10+ feet of vertical pressure I doubt the thing will even run.

That would be news to me as I've been running one at 14 ft. head pressure now for over a year.:lol:
And so has a lot of my reefer brothers.


PCX-40 1190gph 22 ft max head 3/4" MPT 110

 

[mike660r]

Go with an iwaki 70 or equivalent panworld. I thought the ampmasters were prone to leakage and a lot of noise.

 

[nsamouroux]

Stingy, the Mak 4 is 1190 gph at under 5' of head pressure from what I can see, unless I'm looking at the wrong pump of course. I have a PCX-40 on my ETSS skimmer, which should be similar. How much water could the thing be pushing at 14' like in your setup? I would imagine that even being pressure rated (didn't realize their shutoff was 22', nice pumps for beckett / downdraft skimmers!) it would only be around 500gph at that point?

I was worried about the Ampmaster as well since I had heard bad things about Dolphin pumps. Everything I've read in the last couple days shows that the Aquasea pumps were horrendous for seal failure / leaks, but I haven't been able to find any bad reviews on the Ampmaster line yet. I've read a few reviews on reef site forums that the ampmaster pumps have been running for years with little or no maintenance, so I'm not as nervous about it at this point. I would greatly prefer a Reeflo pump, but this dolphin is almost new for an unbeatable price

 

[serpentman]

Definitely go with a remote sump. This also gives you options for expansion (i.e. frag tank, fuge, etc.). Also, this will also allow you to run a larger sump which makes water changes, etc. a lot easier.