BB and Nitrates?

[elephen]

Alright well I have had a 120 setup BB for about 5 months now. I have roughly 10-12 different SPS frags/small colonies but the colors of all of them are still pretty browned out.

Here is my setup...
AGA 120 RR (4x2x2)
Closed Loop 1: Sequence Dart with 4 1" outputs
Closed Loop 2: Pan World 150-PS (pressure rated) powering 2 3/4" eductors
Return: Mag 9
UV: Aqua Medic 36w
Heater: 250w Pro-Heat II w/digital temp controller
Controller: AquaController III with temp, pH and ORP probe
Skimmer: Precision Marine Bullet-2 powered by a Pan World 150-PS
Ballast: Sunlight Supply BlueWave 7 dual 250w HQI
Pendants: Sunlight Supply Reef Optix I (soon to be 2 Lumenarc 3's)
Bulbs: 250w 20k Radiums
Atinics: 2 36" NO atinics

*All results are from Salifert test kits
Nitrite: 0
Phosphate: around 0
Nitrate: 10ppm
Calcium: 400ppm
Alk: 8 dKH

Photoperiod: 8am atinincs on, 12pm halides on, 6pm halides off, 10pm atinics off

Feeding: I feed 1/2 cube of frozen brine a day and once a week I'll feed a small pinch full of frozen cyclopeeze with the brine.

pH and temp doesn't fluctuate much. Note ORP probe isn't hooked up yet either.
Date Temp pH ORP
23:00 04/20/2006 81.5 6.44 000
00:00 04/21/2006 81.0 6.46 000
01:00 04/21/2006 80.5 6.50 000
02:00 04/21/2006 80.0 6.55 000
03:00 04/21/2006 79.5 6.61 000
04:00 04/21/2006 79.0 6.67 000
05:00 04/21/2006 79.4 6.72 000
06:00 04/21/2006 79.3 6.80 000
07:00 04/21/2006 79.4 6.86 000
08:00 04/21/2006 79.5 6.90 000
09:00 04/21/2006 79.1 6.97 000
10:00 04/21/2006 79.4 7.04 000
11:00 04/21/2006 79.4 7.16 000
12:00 04/21/2006 79.4 7.26 000
13:00 04/21/2006 79.6 7.30 000
14:00 04/21/2006 80.1 7.27 000
15:00 04/21/2006 80.6 7.24 000
16:00 04/21/2006 81.1 7.21 000
17:00 04/21/2006 81.5 7.19 000
18:00 04/21/2006 81.7 7.17 000
19:00 04/21/2006 81.1 7.15 000
20:00 04/21/2006 80.4 7.12 000
21:00 04/21/2006 79.5 7.11 000
22:00 04/21/2006 79.5 7.11 000
23:00 04/21/2006 79.7 7.10 000
00:00 04/22/2006 79.8 7.09 000
01:00 04/22/2006 79.5 7.17 000
02:00 04/22/2006 79.1 7.20 000
03:00 04/22/2006 79.4 7.21 000
04:00 04/22/2006 79.9 7.18 000
05:00 04/22/2006 79.4 7.17 000
06:00 04/22/2006 79.2 7.19 000
07:00 04/22/2006 79.5 7.19 000
08:00 04/22/2006 79.8 7.15 000
09:00 04/22/2006 79.7 7.14 000
10:00 04/22/2006 79.2 7.17 000
11:00 04/22/2006 79.1 7.18 000
12:00 04/22/2006 79.6 7.17 001
13:00 04/22/2006 79.9 7.14 001
14:00 04/22/2006 80.3 7.12 002
15:00 04/22/2006 80.6 7.10 002
16:00 04/22/2006 81.0 7.08 002
17:00 04/22/2006 81.7 7.06 002
18:00 04/22/2006 82.0 7.03 002
19:00 04/22/2006 81.9 7.01 002
20:00 04/22/2006 81.2 6.98 003
21:00 04/22/2006 80.7 6.96 003
22:00 04/22/2006 80.0 6.94 003
23:00 04/22/2006 79.9 6.93 003
00:00 04/23/2006 80.1 6.92 003
01:00 04/23/2006 80.0 6.99 004
02:00 04/23/2006 80.1 7.02 004
03:00 04/23/2006 80.3 7.06 004
04:00 04/23/2006 80.1 7.14 004
05:00 04/23/2006 79.9 7.17 004
06:00 04/23/2006 80.1 7.18 004
07:00 04/23/2006 80.2 7.20 004
08:00 04/23/2006 80.1 7.21 004
09:00 04/23/2006 80.0 7.25 004
10:00 04/23/2006 80.2 7.29 005
11:00 04/23/2006 80.3 7.31 005
12:00 04/23/2006 80.0 7.32 006
13:00 04/23/2006 80.5 7.35 007
14:00 04/23/2006 81.2 8.25 007 ** pH probe installed that day
15:00 04/23/2006 81.9 8.30 008
16:00 04/23/2006 82.4 8.33 009
17:00 04/23/2006 82.8 8.35 009
18:00 04/23/2006 83.1 8.36 010
19:00 04/23/2006 83.0 8.36 010
20:00 04/23/2006 82.5 8.34 011
21:00 04/23/2006 81.9 8.33 011
22:00 04/23/2006 81.3 8.32 011
23:00 04/23/2006 80.8 8.30 009
00:00 04/24/2006 80.4 8.29 009
01:00 04/24/2006 80.1 8.28 009
02:00 04/24/2006 80.1 8.27 009
03:00 04/24/2006 80.3 8.26 008
04:00 04/24/2006 80.3 8.25 008
05:00 04/24/2006 80.1 8.23 008
06:00 04/24/2006 80.2 8.21 008
07:00 04/24/2006 80.3 8.20 007
08:00 04/24/2006 80.2 8.21 007
09:00 04/24/2006 80.1 8.21 008
10:00 04/24/2006 80.1 8.22 008
11:00 04/24/2006 80.3 8.22 008
12:00 04/24/2006 80.2 8.23 008
13:00 04/24/2006 80.3 8.24 008
14:00 04/24/2006 80.7 8.28 009
15:00 04/24/2006 81.1 8.31 009
16:00 04/24/2006 81.5 8.33 009
17:00 04/24/2006 81.8 8.34 010
18:00 04/24/2006 82.2 8.36 012
19:00 04/24/2006 82.2 8.35 012
20:00 04/24/2006 81.5 8.34 012
21:00 04/24/2006 80.6 8.34 012
22:00 04/24/2006 80.5 8.29 012
23:00 04/24/2006 80.6 8.26 012
00:00 04/25/2006 80.5 8.23 012
01:00 04/25/2006 80.4 8.21 013
02:00 04/25/2006 80.5 8.19 016
03:00 04/25/2006 80.6 8.17 018
04:00 04/25/2006 80.4 8.17 019
05:00 04/25/2006 80.0 8.18 017
06:00 04/25/2006 80.1 8.19 017
07:00 04/25/2006 80.0 8.20 016
08:00 04/25/2006 80.1 8.21 016
09:00 04/25/2006 80.1 8.22 016
10:00 04/25/2006 80.1 8.22 016
11:00 04/25/2006 80.1 8.23 016
12:00 04/25/2006 80.2 8.24 016
13:00 04/25/2006 80.2 8.26 016
14:00 04/25/2006 80.0 8.30 016
15:00 04/25/2006 80.0 8.32 016
16:00 04/25/2006 80.0 8.35 015
17:00 04/25/2006 80.1 8.36 015

Now my question is why do I have 10ppm Nitrates? There is no detritius on the starboard of the tank and none in the sump. I siphon anything (what little there may be) when I do my weekly 10% water changes (with IO, mix and let sit for 24 hrs to let adjust to temp of water, salinity 1.025).

Now I know I do have some suspended particulate matter in the water column that I believe may be breaking down in the water column causing this due to my low sump turnover.

Should I add 100 micron filter socks and change them out every day, try some Nitrate filter pads?

Not real sure where to go from here. The skimmer fills the large Precision Marine waste collector every other day and skims pretty wet.

 

[elephen]

Forgot to include my calcium reactor: its from Aquatic Systems Designs single chamber with a Maxi-jet feed pump and Milwaukee MA957 CO2 regulator.

 

[jsweir]

I use socks changed every day, skim heavily with zero nitrates. Are your rocks still shedding?

 

[elephen]

100% RODI, I test TDS every batch its 0.

Fish consist of:
1 sm false perc
1 3" female lyretail anthias
1 3" fire clown
1 fire shrimp



jsweir- Nope rocks get blown off every week and there is nothing.

 

[Wiskey]

I am definitally going to keep an eye on this, I have a BB reef as well and I have always had 2.5-5 PPM nitrate and undetectable phospate. I don't know why, plenty of BB people have undetectable nitrate, and I can't seem to pull that off.

Tagging,
Whiskey

 

[trueblackpercula]

I do not think that a nitrate level of 10 is bad at all. But I will say that some foods do cuase problems if they start to decay If your nitrate was 40 to 50 than i would start to worry. I have a question for you. How does the tank look are the corals happy?

 

[kirstenk]

You are only giving your corals 6 hours of good light and the bulbs are radiums. Start there. Increase lighting. Continue till you see results.

 

[JB NY]

Almost always browned out corals are a result of too high nutrients and/or not enough light. Nutrients (meaning poor water quality) are mostly to blame though.

 

[AlgaeMan]

I have the same issue with my 300g sps only tank. No3 crept up to about 30. I'm using az-no3 to help keep it in check. I'm adding a 65g fuge this weekend. AZ-No3 is good stuff, but at 20.00 a small bottle it gets expensive for large tanks. My hat's off to those running bb's with little to no No3 and without a fuge.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Is this what I have to look forwad to"( I will be running BB very soon.

 

[JMBoehling]

Try some Chaeto in a fuge... I know, I know, you shouldn't need macro in a BB system. I broke the rule and run Chaeto in a BB 20 Gallon fuge and have had no Nitrates, 0.00 for over 9 months now.. Before dumping my sand and adding a fuge, my nitrates were always 60 to 80 and my SPS hated me..

 

[Weatherman]

Or, you could allow a little bit of macro algae grow in the tank and harvest it out periodically. Maybe one of the more attractive ones, like halimeda.

Another option would be to get some giant clams. The zooxanthellae in the clams are good consumers of both ammonia and nitrate.

 

[JB NY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7247588#post7247588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JMBoehling
I know, I know, you shouldn't need macro in a BB system.

That's not true. For years and years the biggest problem with BB was that people could not keep nitrates down.

The new method of tons of flow and super strong skimmers is what allowed people to go back to BB. But if you don't have things setup correctly you will have the same problems as people had for years. High nutrients and brown corals.

 

[elephen]

I have no place for a fuge at all. I will increase the halides time during the afternoon.

Corals overall look happy and healthy minus not a ton of color, great PE. Now I just put in a few new ones, a pink prostrata and a frag from my old ORA Blue Tort that was under a 1000w 20k halide on an hqi ballast for 4 months, its deep blue with bright purple tips and lime green polyps and it is still keeping its color nicely along with the prostrata, color seems to be the older Reefer Madness frags I have don't seem to want to color up.

I guess I'll see if I can find some halmedia since I have no place for a fuge and let it grow in the display.

weatherman- Tridacna Gigas?

kirstenk- Yes but the Radiums are powered by an HQI ballast which thus gives them quite a bit of output according to Sanjay, 94-96 if I remember correctly from his analysis.

 

[trueblackpercula]

I do not want to hijack your tread but Is my 250 13k megachrome de bulb going to have a high enough par for my tank? Its 31" deep.
Sorry its run by a 250 electronic icecap ballast with 150 watts of actincs.

 

[elephen]

No problem but just curious, what does your lighting have to do with bb and nitrates?

I'd say yes, its enough.

 

[JB NY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7247776#post7247776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elephen

I guess I'll see if I can find some halmedia since I have no place for a fuge and let it grow in the display.

weatherman- Tridacna Gigas?

Try not to use halmedia. It sucks up calcium, doesn't really remove a lot of nutrients, and can be a real nusance if it gets in the display tank with SPS.

Also while clams can remove nitrates you generally need a lot of themto make a difference. At one point I was thinking of using clams,I was looking at buying some, at the time I was looking at about 15 of them.

 

[JB NY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7247801#post7247801 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
I do not want to hijack your tread but Is my 250 13k megachrome de bulb going to have a high enough par for my tank? Its 31" deep.
Sorry its run by a 250 electronic icecap ballast with 150 watts of actincs.

It should be, you might have some problems with things at the bottom, but I think you will be ok.

 

[Weatherman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7247776#post7247776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elephen
weatherman- Tridacna Gigas?

Any of the Tridacnids will work. I happen to like Croceas, although the larger clams will be greater ammonia and nitrate consumers.

 

[jthnhale]

elephen,
I do think it's strange you have that much No3 in your system, a new BB 120, 3 fish, a shrimp, and a great skimmer. It does not add up.
As for the No3 being the cause of the brown coral, I'm not so sure. my local club has been discussing this for a while and we can't make this connection. A bunch of us have systems similar to yours with nitrates much higher like 30-40ppm, and the coral has been growing and displaying amazing colors.

I agree that the light period may be too little for the coral to color up.
Can you take some pics so we can see a before and after.