Bean Animal in a Center Overflow. Gurgling?

[bozoreefer]

Hey guys

I just plumbed my 72x30x24 with a center overflow. I put Bean animal pipes into the overflow.


Closed Siphon - 1.5 inch inside the overflow. 1 inch below the tank.

Open channel - 1.25 inch inside the overflow. 1 inch below the tank.

Emergency pipe - 1 inch inside the overflow. 1 inch below the tank.


So my open channel is always making gurgling noises.

I understand why its doing it, but I dont know how to make it stop. When I put a cap with a hole drilled into the cap, the open channel starts pulling a crap ton more water.



The elbows for both the open channel and the closed siphon the same height inside the overflow.


How can I make the gurgling noises stop. Ive had a bean animal setup before but it was a coast to coast internal box. It never made noises like this setup does.



Thanks


Dave

 

[LXXero]

when you say inside the overflow, do you mean from the top? Cause normally the siphon should be the lowest drain, then the open channel the middle, and emergency the highest.

put the cap with the hole back on it, then open the siphon more?

what kind of overflow box is it? If you have an external style box, you can sometimes forego a stand-pipe on the siphon entirely to buy yourself extra height. i just put a strainer cap on the bottom. this makes the external box drain completely when the pump is off, which is kind of a nice bonus.

 

[bozoreefer]

when you say inside the overflow, do you mean from the top? Cause normally the siphon should be the lowest drain, then the open channel the middle, and emergency the highest.

put the cap with the hole back on it, then open the siphon more?

what kind of overflow box is it? If you have an external style box, you can sometimes forego a stand-pipe on the siphon entirely to buy yourself extra height. i just put a strainer cap on the bottom. this makes the external box drain completely when the pump is off, which is kind of a nice bonus.

Thanks for the response!

The overflow is inside the tank. It's just a regular center overflow that's inside the tank. When I mentioned inside the overflow, I meant from the top. At the top it's 1.5 and below the tank, it is reduced to 1 inch.

Right now the open Channel and the full siphon are at the same level. Should I lower the full siphon pipe?


Can you explain why my open Channel starts pulling more water when I put a drilled cap on to the top of the pipe?
How would opening the siphon channel more prevent the open Channel from siphoning more water.


Thanks for your help!

 

[Breadman03]

Your siphon and open channel pipes can be at the same height, but you want the emergency to be higher so that it stays dry, except for an emergency, so don't go extending it 6" above the tank Other than that, let's limit the topic to your siphon and open channel.

Your siphon is likely capable of handling more flow than your pump could ever muster. You should manually tune it so that just a little bit of water goes down the open channel.

Where is the gurgling coming from? Is it at the top of the pipe, or is it from the water splashing from the pipe into your sump?

 

[bozoreefer]

Your siphon and open channel pipes can be at the same height, but you want the emergency to be higher so that it stays dry, except for an emergency, so don't go extending it 6" above the tank Other than that, let's limit the topic to your siphon and open channel.

Your siphon is likely capable of handling more flow than your pump could ever muster. You should manually tune it so that just a little bit of water goes down the open channel.

Where is the gurgling coming from? Is it at the top of the pipe, or is it from the water splashing from the pipe into your sump?

Thanks for the response!


It's coming from the top of the open Channel. The end pipe is submerged 3/4 inch into the water. So is the full siphon.



I was thinking my full siphon was too high?

I also have my dc12000 at full power and my full siphon gate valve is 3/4 closed. I'm trying to fine tune that to get the best water level inside the overflow. I feel at this point the pump might not be enough for the 225 gallon lol. Might be wasting electricity at this point. What do you think bout this?



Thanks again man!

 

[LXXero]

Opening the siphon more should hopefully prevent as much water from going down the open channel.

If it doesn't, then lower the siphon, and try again. Ultimately, you should be able to raise/lower the water level in your overflow by adjusting the siphon's valve. If you can't, then it wouldn't hurt to lower the siphon, that's my honest opinion.

There's a lot of people here who will tell you they can be the same height and that's the optimal design and what-not. That maybe the case if you built it exactly like on bean animal's page, but many of us haven't. You fall into that category, as do i....Personally, i don't like them the same level, I prefer my margin for error to be wider than that. Having them all the same height reduces your margins for error greatly.

So, my guess as to the reason it's taking more water when you have the durso cap on there is because it's smoothing out the flow. When it's just an open pipe gurgling, it's flow rate is kind of rough and its sort of "slurping" in water. When you add that durso, my guess is, it's creating a much smoother flow of water and so it's picking up a lot more water in turn. I'm sure there's some experts on fluid dynamics here that will tell you i'm full of crap without actually providing you any real evidence to the contrary (lol) but i digress.

Also, i'm not sure what your siphon standpipe looks like, but inside of an internal overflow like that, you could just have a standpipe with a strainer on the top, rather than the whole double-90s thing. And you can sit it in there pretty low. Say, the top of it should be 6" below the water level, or more. This greatly reduces the chances of startup failure, and you could lower the pipe this way as well.

See this for example:
http://gmacreef.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/drain-heights-flattened-sml.jpg

The only difference between that and your setup will be a durso that sits in the middle of the emergency. That's just a siphon+Emergency. yours has a third pipe with a durso on top that sits in the middle between the two. The nice thing about having the strainer low is that you literally just close off the siphon until the water level rises, and you set it so that it's just barely rising into the durso, and you're done. Durso too noisy? open the siphon more. Durso not getting any flow at all? Close the siphon a bit. You find the sweet spot and leave it there, then you're done.

 

[mcgyvr]

dc12000 on full for a 125G tank is wasting electricity..
You need about 600 GPH flow through the sump.. You are probably 3-4 times that..
Cut that back to 1/2...

Put the cap/tube on the open channel and finish anything else thats not finished..

Open the valve on the full siphon all the way.. Start everything up.. Give it 2-3 minutes.. (its going to be noisy) Then start to close the valve till the water level is where you want it..

3/4" closed with a DC12000 on full blast is more than likely too much unless you have a lot of head pressure on that pump

 

[jacksonpt]

Opening the siphon more should hopefully prevent as much water from going down the open channel.

Agreed. Open the siphon channel. You want as much water as possible running through the siphon. Start with it fully open, and it's gurgling, then slowly restrict it until it quiets down.

 

[Breadman03]

agreed. Open the siphon channel. You want as much water as possible running through the siphon. Start with it fully open, and it's gurgling, then slowly restrict it until it quiets down.

+1