Beginner's guide to Live Rock

[krish]

Hi,
When curing the uncured rock in say a kiddie pool, is it better
to let the rocks sit on a elevated surface, say egg crate on
supports. Then let the water from the pumps spray on the
rocks rather than soak them.
This will prevent the organisms from the ammonia spike, since
they are not soaked.

Any thoughts?

Btw, how do you handle those worms. I used to be immune
to those in my early years. I guess now my sensitivity levels
have changed

thanks
krish

 

[Palmetto]

Great thread.

Someone asked if you used RO/DI for all these water changes when curing. I'm curious about this too. I considered it but ended up just filling up my curing tank with the garden hose. Figured the nutrients in my water were the least of my worries. But I'm curious what you think.

I always use RO/DI water for all phases of the process. Perhaps that is being too cautious, but that is the way I have always done it.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Palmetto]

Interesting and informative post Palmetto,

whats your take on seeding lace rock with LR. So far I have a 45 gl rubbermaind with a 200 wt heater a stong powerhaed and 1 inch of caribsea crushed coral with aragonite. I just trew in a plant grow light with 2 50/50 bulbs that I should be getting in a couple of days. Im also looking to buy my LR next week.

Any suggestions?

I am not a fan of the crushed coral substrate. I have found it very difficult to manage nitrates using CC, I suppose because food and detritus is so easily trapped. I use a combination of sugar-sized aragonite (Southdown) and Live-Collected Fiji and Caribbean sand about 1/2" deep as a top layer to provide sandbed fauna to get the sand crawlin'. Many of the soft-bodied worms and things that you want living in your sand to do cleanup duty thrive much better in the finer sand, and can be fun to watch from the side. (like an ant farm!) I usually use a DSB about 4"=6" deep (or even deeper on large tanks).

I do not personally use the lace rock, but I am a very picky LR person! I mix less expensive rock (Fiji) with more expensive rock (Buna Spiny branch, Kaileni, Tonga Specialty rock, Shelf, etc) to get what I am after, but I believe strongly in the biological filtration provided by the "real thing"! It is an expensive part of your reef, but it is the heartbeat of the whole system and not somewhere I cut corners for the most part. In very large configurations, I have ordered base grade or first grade Fiji to build the foundation, or used some concrete blocks that have been soaked for weeks. In smaller tanks, I use 100% LR for the filtration benefits.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Palmetto]

What should i look for on the rock?



If it is mostly white and beige is it bad?

also, are there specific corals that go with spcific LR and vice versa?

should i hold off on the fish until i add the LR? the corals?

what lighting is best for LR in a 55?

Look for good coralline algae coverage, as well as small featherdusters or other signs of life. Any little live animals are a good sign, such as foraminiferans, worms, pods, corals, or other critters. Look for the shapes you are after such as arches, caves, etc- because all of the rock will eventually end up purple so you have to pick the shapes that fit your idea of how your reef should look.

Yes, usually mostly white and beige means mostly dead, although most rock turns white after curing because the coralline often bleaches during the curing process. It will turn purple again, but I still seek the pieces with the best looking coralline to setup new tanks.

It really doesn't matter what corals go with what Live Rock, although some of us reef geeks like setting up a theme tank using all Caribbean stuff or something like that.

DEFINATELY no fish or corals until after the full cycle. They will thank you for waiting!

I would say there is no one lighting that is "best" for LR, although I would say that actinic fluorescents grow coralline the quickest IME!




Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Palmetto]

also, what kinds of shapes should i use and where in the tank to build a scape?

That is totally a personal preference. I like to make the high points at the back of the tank so that I don't get shadows. I like to leave some open sand areas for clams and other bottom-dwellers. If one side or the other gets more traffic (like a hallway on one side), I make the rockwork lower there so that you can look across more distance and get more viewing area from the places most convenient to view.

I do not fill the whole tank with a rock wall, preferring to leave natural breaks and open areas for fish to swim and to allow for good circulation. I also make sure to get some current BEHIND the rock with a good powerhead or something to keep dead zones from forming.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Palmetto]

Hi,
When curing the uncured rock in say a kiddie pool, is it better
to let the rocks sit on a elevated surface, say egg crate on
supports. Then let the water from the pumps spray on the
rocks rather than soak them.
This will prevent the organisms from the ammonia spike, since
they are not soaked.

Any thoughts?

Btw, how do you handle those worms. I used to be immune
to those in my early years. I guess now my sensitivity levels
have changed

thanks
krish

I am not picturing what type of pumps you would be using to spray the rock. Many of the collection and curing facilities overseas use spray-bar methods to cure the rock without submerging them, so this concept is definatly sound. I cannot really picture a convenient way to recreate this effect in a kiddie pool- and it honesly sounds like more trouble than it is worth to me. However, if you come up with an interesting way to accomplish this, I am all ears!



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Palmetto]

Sorry it took me awhile for some of the replies this time- we have had some family issues this past week that kept us away for awhile!

Thanks for all the positive response to this thread. I will be compiling this into a LiveRock FAQ- many of these are some excellent questions that I would not have thought of on my own! Keep 'em coming...



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Uran]

I am just cycling my tank (started on 3rd May). How many days should i wait until i put in my live rock, and should I get cured or uncured? Also should I put it in 2 lots half each or all togeather, im guessing 2 lots

 

[Uran]

I think i am gonna put a prawn in.

 

[Palmetto]

I am just cycling my tank (started on 3rd May). How many days should i wait until i put in my live rock, and should I get cured or uncured? Also should I put it in 2 lots half each or all togeather, im guessing 2 lots

I put my Live Rock in immediately after the sand settles. That is what starts your cycle. Cured or uncured will work just fine, although I do like using at least partially uncured rock when starting a new tank because of the way it stimulates the cycle.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Palmetto]

I think i am gonna put a prawn in.

You really don't need a big stinky piece of shrimp to start your cycle- the dieoff that takes place on your Live Rock will achieve the same results.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Kaos]

Great thread Palmetto!

It's nice to have all this info. in one place. I am also a big fan of experience so I like hearing this stuff from someone who has, and is, handleing this stuff every day. The descriptions of each rock helped me the most. The online stores or articles just give breif explanations and leave it at that. I completely agree with the mixing of LR to get better biodiversity. The ocean is made up of ALOT of different organisms that have very specific roles. The more of these you can put in your tank the better your chances are for success.

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing.

Later, Glenn

 

[Uran]

Great thnkx for your info, ill order some today.

 

[alkataz]

I have heard that u should not run your skimmer when u are using live rock to cycle your tank. What do u think about this?

 

[toddpolish]

from what I've read people go both ways on this one. I would say YES run the skimmer. get used to how it works. it may not take much outta the water at first, but it eventually will, don't worry.

 

[seaofdunes]

i recently picked up a peice of live rock (cured) from my LFS (think it is fiji). anyways, it has as nice cream colored sponge on it. today i found a bleached white colored growth on a dead coral i had in for show. it looks like the mold that grows on fruit, with a clear casing. what is this? is it bad?

 

[mars2001]

What's your opinion of the algae scrubber concept:

To prevent the massive die-off you culture several liters of
phyto ahead of time. Then when the rock arrives in the tank,
run the lights for 24 hrs (for a few days)?

This would attempt to feed everything on the rock to minimize die-off,
while at the same time supplementing the sandbed's effectiveness
with the phyto which would use the excess Nitrogen in the system
as 'fertilizer.'

Would this cut down the time & save more life?

(In addition (or by itself), would it be worthwhile to borrowed a
cup of live sand to seed your sandbed (&/or do a mini-cyle using
a piece of seafood to activate the bacteria) before any of this starts?)

Would this ensure the tank you were putting the rock into had a
better chance than if it only had 'sterile' saltwater? Some
bacteria (still too few for what will be needed, but enough that
the bacterial colony wouldn't be starting from scratch) is better
than none, right? - or would this preventive measure be pointless
and make little difference?

THANK YOU for sharing knowledge & experience!

 

[Palmetto]

i recently picked up a peice of live rock (cured) from my LFS (think it is fiji). anyways, it has as nice cream colored sponge on it. today i found a bleached white colored growth on a dead coral i had in for show. it looks like the mold that grows on fruit, with a clear casing. what is this? is it bad?

It is really hard to picture just what that is, sometimes if something goes funky in the tank there will be a slime coat that forms across it. Increasing circulation may help, but again, it is hard to tell what you are seeing.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful on this one!

Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[Palmetto]

What's your opinion of the algae scrubber concept:

To prevent the massive die-off you culture several liters of
phyto ahead of time. Then when the rock arrives in the tank,
run the lights for 24 hrs (for a few days)?

This would attempt to feed everything on the rock to minimize die-off,
while at the same time supplementing the sandbed's effectiveness
with the phyto which would use the excess Nitrogen in the system
as 'fertilizer.'

Would this cut down the time & save more life?

(In addition (or by itself), would it be worthwhile to borrowed a
cup of live sand to seed your sandbed (&/or do a mini-cyle using
a piece of seafood to activate the bacteria) before any of this starts?)

Would this ensure the tank you were putting the rock into had a
better chance than if it only had 'sterile' saltwater? Some
bacteria (still too few for what will be needed, but enough that
the bacterial colony wouldn't be starting from scratch) is better
than none, right? - or would this preventive measure be pointless
and make little difference?

THANK YOU for sharing knowledge & experience!

If you run 24 hr. lights on curing rock, you will end up with rock that looks like a Chia Pet! The hair algae would blossom almost immediately.

It is certainly a good idea to seed your sandbed with good Live Sand, but not because of bacteria. (It has bacteria, but the LR is already LOADED with bacteria!) The sand helps by adding sandbed critters that help clean up leftover food and other things.

You don't have to worry about using aged seawater when curing Live Rock- the bacteria in the LR is what "ages" the water for you. There is nothing better to start your bacteria than good Live Rock itself.



I am always glad to help!

Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

 

[mars2001]

Just to double check one more time though....

For the hair algae (bryopsis and others) to bloom, it would need
to be able to allocate itself enough nutrients to grow rapidly (N2,
PO4, etc.) would using large amounts of phyto prevent this (also-
I mentioned a 24hr light cycle as with this much phytoplankton
concentrated in this small of a space, I believe you could actually
use up most (all?) of the O2 during photosynthesis' dark cycle....)

PLMK what you think...

Thank you again.