BEST Kalk Stirrer?

Fliger

New member
I'm looking for a kalk stirrer for a ~135G tank I'm setting up in February. It will mainly be used to offset a calcium reactor, not really as a ca source. I had a tank crash a couple years ago and lost a lot of corals due to a kalk accident, and have been guyshy ever since.

I've done a quick search and the best one I've seen so far is probably the Deltec. But I haven't seen a LOT of them. It seems more safe, since it doesn't really kick up the kalk like some do. It's also a smaller footprint and seems easy to fill.

Are there other high quality ones out there? This will be set-up to run with my auto top-off. Its an osmolator and comes on about every 30 minutes or so.

Any personal experience would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
I've got a Geo that is really well made and works great.

But, you might want to check what the local reef chemistry guru uses (Randy Holmes-Farley uses a trashcan and a pump). Here are a list of some of his articles on the subject.

Limewater (kalkwasser)

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

The Self Purification of Limewater (Kalkwasser)
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm

The Degradation of Limewater (Kalkwasser) in Air
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-...ature/index.htm

Magnesium and Strontium in Limewater
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/chem.htm

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm
 
All I can add is this - we did a club DIY reactor over the weekend. We were discussing the design and NAGA mentioned that the Deltec was the best he'd ever seen..........

IMHO that means one thing - the Deltec is the best unit on the market.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6460495#post6460495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ErikS
All I can add is this - we did a club DIY reactor over the weekend. We were discussing the design and NAGA mentioned that the Deltec was the best he'd ever seen..........

IMHO that means one thing - the Deltec is the best unit on the market.

Can you share NAGA's thoughts on why he feels the Deltec is the superior design?
 
The main difference in kalk reactors is the manner by which the kalk power is stirred. There are three primary solutions.

1) Magnetic stirring bar
These use a rotating magnet at the base of the cylinder that drives a magnetic stirring bar.

Pro's:
* The least number of possible points for leaks (fewer holes)
* No pump to clean or maintain

Con's:
* The magnetic stir systems often have difficulty driving the stir-magnet through the sludge of undissolved kalk. Myreef Systems has come up with an ingenious solution by raising the stir platform so the stir-magnet only stirs water rather than mechanically stirring the kalk. Unfortunately, in my experience the kalk can get "paste-y" and strong water movement or mechanical stirring is needed to be able to load a large supply of kalk and to stir it adequately to dissolve most of it.
Link to MyReef Systems


2) Pump agitation
Use a pump in the lower portion of the reactor to either "swirl" or "blast" the kalk at the bottom into suspension to saturate the water in the reactor.

Pro's:
* Can usually handle a large load of kalk and provide enough agitation to reach the lower levels
* Reasonably priced

Con's"
* Additional reactor penetrations, plumbing, and pump seals result in a higher potential of a leak (Most people never have one)
* Pump maintenance to clean calcium deposits or to replace parts due to accelerated wear on impellers due to circulating undissolved kalk particles (I haven't cleaned my pump in about a year and a half, but it is making noises so I ought to do it soon)

This is the method used by most reactors on the market including Geo
Precision Marine
Geo Kalk Reactor

3) Other types of stirring
The Deltec is very nice.

It uses a mechanical "stir-stick" that is driven by a motor at the top which penetrates the top lid.

Pro's:
* Decent mechanical stirring

Con's:
* Needing to keep a water tight seal around a revolving stir-rod under the pressure of your feed system.
* Price

Deltec Site


There also appear to be some units that use a more passive approach relying on the high solubility of calcium hydroxide (or calcium oxide) to reasonably saturate the water flowing through.

If you have a place to put a large container I like Randy Holmes-Farely's solution of just mixing up a large batch and pumping the mixed solution (a batch rather than in-line process). He has found that it remains highly-saturated for a reasonable period of time. Very little muss & fuss and very little to go wrong.


My 2-cents: The key considerations are -
* How little effort it takes to operate - factors include how much kalk you can load in at one time, how much effort it takes to load more kalk, maintenance of pumps or seals
* Reliability - no leaks, is not prone to locking or sludging up


Have fun,
Paul
 
WHEN I have the knowledge (which isn't very often :) ) I try to give detailed answers like you just did. But its really rare that I ask a question and get a detailed, well thought out response like that! Thanks a LOT, you are a real credit to RC!

If price wasn't an issue for you (it is for me, but I set my budget on this at $500 thinking thats what they cost) - what would you buy? I'm leaning towards the Deltec. I used to have the Tunze dispenser and it actually worked great, but I didn't like the way it "hung". I also used the method of just saturating my top-off water, and the Tunze Osmo pump lasted well over a year in saturated kalk - and is now going on 3+ years service (the Osmo is my FAVORITE piece of equipment). But thats where I had the issue. I was overseas and my top-off water went too low. Because it was so low, ALL the residual kalk gravitated towards the last drop, and the Osmo pulled it all thru. White tank, skyrocketed ph, thousands of dollars of dead SPS.

Again, thanks for the detailed response!
 
I plan on purchasing the Deltec KM 500 but I am unsure if the Osmolator will work with the reactor. From what you know Fliger would this be possible. By the way how did the LA III minis work out for you? Adam
 
Tunze dispenser

Tunze dispenser

Fliger-
Was the tunze dispenser that you owned the small unit with now moving parts? Were you happy with it? I ask only because I just down sized tanks and was forced to sell the Geo Nilsen unit that I had which I was very happy with. I need something small and simple at this point. Seems like the Tunze unit that I'm thinking of might sludge up due to no stirrer.
 
David,

I really like the the Deltec unit due to its simplicity and reliablity. I am working on a DIY version of it right now and preliminary tests are looking good.

But for now my old standby (recently rebuilt and tweeked again) has been working great for the past 10 years.

I call it my...


KALK PULVERIZER
5135Kalk_Reactor_Installed.jpg


A little overkill but I made it out of old equipment laying around, MTC ozone reacor and an Iwaki 30RLT. Holds over 3 gallons and is fed by a Litermeter. IMO oversize is good so you don't have to charge it with kalk as often. I recharge this one with 1lb of kalk about every 6 weeks. When the Iwaki cycles on every 4 hours, it doesn't even flinch at 6 inches of kalk powder at the bottom of this reactor!

Luis
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6463385#post6463385 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger


...

If price wasn't an issue for you (it is for me, but I set my budget on this at $500 thinking thats what they cost) - what would you buy?

...


Even without price being an issue I'd probably stick with one of the pump driven models. My Geo uses a MAG-2 pump which is very solid and IMHO more leakproof than the models that use Maxi-Jet 1200's.

* They do a better job of stiring a big load of kalk (lower maintenance). The Deltec stir bars are not as effective at reaching the kalk laying up at the outer circumference. BTW - That Kalk Pulverizer sure ought to get the job done.

* Most of them have a simpler way to re-charge the reactor than removing the entire top of the cylinder.


BTW - The Deltec, Geo, Precision Marine, MRS and most other Nilsen-type reactors will not cause the same problem as your Tunze - the outputs are from the top of the reactor.
 
The Deltec does not output from the top of the reactor. It ouputs from the side. The chamber isn't even sealed.....it's not water tight b/c the water shouldn't reach the top. It's ingenious and it works, but IME if you exceed the recommended kalk amounts it dumps a LOT of kalk into your system b/c the stuff stays in suspension.

I had a geo it works fine, but the pumps become very rattly with time. i found this to be a common problem with pump driven kalk reactors, not just the geo

The MRC seems to be working well. There is a lot of kalk settled on the bottom and the reactor rarely looks whited out even with the thing on, but the output has a good pH so I assume it's working.

I like the kalk pulverizer, but I still wonder if the iwaki would be rattly and noisy on startup--bear in mind my setup is in my living room and that rattly pump startup is a drag...
 
Can you share NAGA's thoughts on why he feels the Deltec is the superior design?
No, I can't really speak for NAGA.....maybe his ears are burning & he'll post :lol: I just trust his opinion & know Fliger can "take it for what it's worth" when he comments.

Moonpod pretty well covered all the pros & cons of the reactors. Pumps fail, stirrers don't fully saturate, and the constant stirs can dump a LOT of kalk (they are 100% fully saturated 100% of the time).
 
i made a kalk reactor thats different than any other recatror out there. i didnt lkie the way you had to fill them. and the way they stired the kalk. i wanted something that would be as maintaince free as posable. so this is wnat i built. feel free to copy it. it works great. the only thing i would change is the output fitting. i have mine sealed at the top with an oring. i plan to remave that an glue a 1/2" pvc union to the outside of th body right near the top. then plum it to the pump that way. i feed it off of a aquamedic dosing pump and a ph controller.
the tobe down the side is made to do 2 things. first it is the funnel to fill the reactor. and then it is the feed line also. the 2 john gust valves are for frrding the reactor and removing water from the reactor to re fill it. its cheam easy to maintain amd will hold 3 lbs of kalk at a time. it uses a 60 rpm motor to stir the kalk.
kalkstirrer1.jpg
 
oh, my ears!!!! LOL!!!

well although my knowledge/experience with Kalk Reactors is not as vast as with other reef equipment I have used a couple and have built my own once.

As with the excellent post that excellent post by Lutefisk I pretty much have the same feeling.

I do like the Deltec though and although the price is the real unattractive part it does have a great design. I have used MRC's version along with Precision Marines.

The MRC's magnet has gotten locked up on several occasions even with it's elevated position in the tube. It's not a bad unit but, IMO it does require some extra attention. It is a PIA to open it up to service it as well. Magnet is small and just about impossible to see running and if it stops you may not know for quite some time. It's white!!!! Go figure!!!

Precison Marines I have only seen on a friends tank and no doubt the pump needs to be cleaned often to have it last longer. Again IMO a PIA. Also, unless the unit is clean and there isn't a white coating on the wall it is hard to tell that the unit is in stirring mode.

The Deltec that I currently have I like. The big thing I really like is the fact that to open it I just lift the lid. So if more kalk needs to be added I just lift the lid and pour. Others you have to unscrew. There is no pump to have to acid bath to clean and when you do decide to clean it there is no pump attached to it that you can bang or break as you rinse in the sink. It's just a tube that you bring to rinse out. The stirrer bar doesn't get stuck and because of the bright red color bar you can always easily see that it is running. This is huge IMO because you can make a quick visual reference to see that it's working. I don't like the price of course but, customer service wise I am comfortable with Doug should I have a problem.

Hope that all makes sense but, I do realize everyone has their own thougths and oppinions. These are just mine.
 
Based on this thread I will be buying the KM500, thanks everyone.

Deltec, H&S, Bubble King, Schuran, Geisemann ... you guys are all snobs. ;-)
 
FWIW, it was recently reported in the Deltec forum that some of the original KM500 units manufactured 10 years ago are still working. Not bad life on the stirrer motor.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6477094#post6477094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLockamon
FWIW, it was recently reported in the Deltec forum that some of the original KM500 units manufactured 10 years ago are still working. Not bad life on the stirrer motor.

Sweet! That's a good track record.

I've learned a lot more about the Deltec reactors on this thread. Thanks.

Paul
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6465970#post6465970 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by moonpod
The Deltec does not output from the top of the reactor. It ouputs from the side. The chamber isn't even sealed.....it's not water tight b/c the water shouldn't reach the top. It's ingenious and it works, but IME if you exceed the recommended kalk amounts it dumps a LOT of kalk into your system b/c the stuff stays in suspension.

Fliger, remember this when deciding on if a Deltec will suit your needs. I guess you could call it gravity feed. It is totally unlike any Kalk Reactor I have ever seen. The Red Stir Bar vibrates and rotates.

If you go with another Brand I would have to say GEO or PM. If I didn't go with Deltec I would have gone with the PM.

I like the external pump concept on the PM and GEO. If something goes bad you can replace it. Your not at the mercy of a company for a specific stir bar and unit.

Naga Makes excellent points with the stir bar on the Deltec.
 
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