biggest system in the smallest area .... anyone ?

[camaroboy8691]

im looking for ideas on the biggest system in the smallest amount of area ....

would it be possible to put a tank with a foot print of 8x8 yes 8ft wide and deep {hieght to be determined}im also using the tank as a room divider}, into lets say a space of only 8ft wide but 12ft deep ? leaving the end 4ft for a rather big sump im thinking 2ft wide and 5ft long maybe 3ft tall ?, there would be lets say 3ft under the tank for pumps to sit it would be cramped but im thinking thats a good way to make it work . and then there should be enough room in the end to still put a tall skimmer and have alittle room to walk


one thing i would have working for me is 12ft ceilings so i can put a water storage barrel up high for top off .

am i crazy for thinking of trying to do this ? im sure others have very big systems in small areas .


ideas ?

 

[TJQ]

No matter what size you go, I think you still have to ensure that you have reasonable access for maintenance. If you have to crawl on your hands and knees every time you want to adjust some equipment, that's going to get very old quick.

 

[dave.m]

Lots of things to think of. A tank that wide is going to assert a lot of pressure outwards. You will need to go with reinforced concrete floor and walls. Consider how you will access the interior once there is water in it. How will you light it? Can you afford that much make-up water for evaporation? Have you considered the costs of maintenance on an ongoing basis? If you've got the money you can do anything. The tank you're talking about is easily going to run $40-50K.

Dave.M

 

[LoneRanger]

yes it is possible. I have a 300+ display with a 125 sump under it. custom framed stand, and everything to run the tank sits inside the wall cavity. it is also a room divider.

L.R.

 

[d3hree]

it sounds like it could be a cracking system...and to be honest it doesnt sound like a small space!
Beware of adding ATO water above the tank as if using a peri pump it will just syphon down emptying the top up water tank.
8ft front to back will be difficult for you to maintain even with access from both sides. You will probably need to get in so make sure that your design of lights etc above the tank allow them to be moved out of the way to enable easy access.

3ft under the tank is a pretty good space, (is that 3ft tall x 8ft long?)I would maybe have the ATO water there so not to have to worry about syphons. 12ft ceilings is awesome and would allow to have a really good light hangar that could move well up out of the way.

 

[camaroboy8691]

to answer a few questions , base support will be good , its a complete concrete floor so im not worried about that part of it .

i have thought about how im getting into the tank , since i have that much over head it will be pretty easy to have lights {see below on lighting} on cables to raise them and lower them . but im thinking of having cat walks above the tank so i can just get around with ease . and then have them removable .

i have thought about the siphon of the ato water being above the tank ,ultimatly i may just get an agriculture water tank and put below the big tank .and not worry about it .... i may use the area above the sump for a few quarantine tanks .....

under the tank it would be about 3ft high and 8x8 wide and deep so there is alot of room there to put the pumps , water tank , etc . but the supports for the tank will take up alot , so it may only be as high as 24" not alot of room but enough to put the pumps .it surely will be a pain getting under there but if its not all the time it should be ok .

money is a factor , and since i have a 12ft celing with basically a flat roof i will be using solar tubes . where this building is, its in sun light from basically 10am till 6pm in the summer winter alittle less ... i will have supplimental lighting but the majority will be solar tubes , im thinking 6 18" tubes will be plenty to cover an 8x8 tank . now your probably thinking how the heck will i be able to get above the tank if the tubes are there , well im still thinking of that , but i should be able to make something up where i can removeed the tubes from the base in the ceiling . or like one guy on here has solar tubes but lined with the reflective material and no tubes directly above the tank ....

there is alot in the plaining stages , but i already have 2 sheets of 4x8 acrylic and plain on starting my tank within the next few weeks its going to be one of those fancy wood tanks to help keep cost down. as crazy as this sounds i may do an all steel tank with epoxy coating .... i own a steel fab shop and have alot of tube steel and such so i may do it that way and have a "tank" of a tank .


if anyone has suggestions for big setups in small locations please chime in .

 

[d3hree]

I looked into creating a steel frame with plywood as a carcass for a large tank. I was told that because the two materials will behave very differently over time it wasnt a wise approach.
Essentially the plywood will expand and contract, only fractionally but potentially enough to dislodge it from the steel structure over time. Whether this is true I dont know but it was enough to make me re-think the inclusion of a steel frame and opt for all wood. In your line of business you are probably better equiped to ascertain whether it would happen or not but it would be remiss of me not to pass on what I was told.

Rather than solar tubes would a skylight fitting the footprint of the tank directly above it not be better?...possibly cheaper I dont know but it would also give you the full clearance above the tank.

 

[camaroboy8691]

i have also heard of wood and steel not working properly , but i think its only something to worry about if the wood is not completly dried out,honestly i may just go the all steel route with no wood . it will be over kill but like i said i have alot of material here and my metal working skills are a tad better than wood working skills , lol , i also have media blasting here at my shop so i ounce everything is welded together i can blast it to give the metal a nice profile to put the epoxy coating onto so it wont pull off down the road . also if i went with steel i wouldnt need to worry about leaky bulk head fittings , i would just use weld in fittings

i know the steel route may sound costly for some , but for me its actually cheaper since i buy metal in bulk and i have a really good stash of heavy material left over from other jobs .

as for the sky light i have thought about that also , but from all my reading the solar tubes are better since you can direct the light better to certain parts of the tank...it will be a pain with the tubes and removing them every now and again but honestly how often will i need to go on top of the tank to move stuff around ? probably only 1 time a month or so to siphon the sand . and if i space them out enough i may not need to remove the tubes at all .


there really isnt much i have not thought about on this , i had that 600gal tank last year i sold before i got it setup and life sort of took a different route for me , but im getting back on track so im about ready to get started on this project .

 

[dave.m]

There's another build on here somewhere where the owner put sleeves on the bottom section of his Solatubes. The bottom of the sleeves are attached to a frame. He has the frame attached to pulleys. He hauls on the pulleys to raise the frame and his Solatubes lift up out of the way. I thought that was pretty cute. Since you are well acquainted with metalwork you should be able to come up with something similar, I should think.

Dave.M

 

[camaroboy8691]

i gotta do a good search when i have tme on the solar tubes , i read quit a bit but never stumbled onto his

but yes i can do pretty much anything here im pretty much a fully equipped shop . i think the only thing i cant make is more time .

 

[camaroboy8691]

i figure ill ask this question on here , but im looking into pumps . im thinking for the tank of going 36" tall and being 8ft wide and depth wise it will come out to about 1400 gallons . and with lets say a 250 gallon sump . i have a pm bullet 2 skimmer that im plaining on running , it may not be big enough , but im going to see what it will do . i plain on using filter bags and belive they should do most of the work .


but i think im going to go with the reef flo hammerheads ..... im plaining on 2 closed loops for the tank so 1 pump for each of those , and then maybe 1 dart pump for the skimmer , and then a hammer head for the return . im thinking this should be enough pump . but .... any thoughts on this ?

 

[d3hree]

I am building a similar size tank, atleast in water volume and I will have 4 seperate closed loop systems, 1 running an OM 4 way. I will have 32000lph return flow and a 300 litre ish surge.
My reasoning behind the amount of pumps is that I can turn them on and off, by timers if i wish to reduce the flow (maybe at night) When I first start the tank I may not run all of them but as the sps grow thicker I can simply turn on another cl pump rather than have to add powerheads.
If one of the pumps breaks or needs servicing it wont impact on the tank that much as the total flow will be 96000lph (+ surge) and each pump will be 16000.
In short if it was me I and for a tank your size I would be using more cls pumps for redundancy, efficiency, and flexibility.
Incidentally the pumps I am using are laguna pond pumps which are proving pretty popular over here. They use the same motor as the very expensive red dragon pumps and are a fraction of the cost. 16000lph / 160watts / £160. I dont know if they are available for you guys though.
HTH

 

[camaroboy8691]

d3 .... i never really gave that a thought about turning pumps on and off . instead of having the 2 big pumps for the closed loop maybe ill just put in 4 smaller pumps ..... hmm back to reading .

i will have to look into the pumps , im not really particular to any brand , as anything can and will fail over time . but i do know my limits on what is good and what is not .

 

[BADGUS]

Good luck with this,i see ''money is a concern'',so i assume these plans will never see the light of day.

 

[camaroboy8691]

Good luck with this,i see ''money is a concern'',so i assume these plans will never see the light of day.

well the tank will be inside so it wont really see the direct light of day other than the solar tubes which are on there way just ordered 6 18" tubes 2 days ago , but this has been in the plaining stages for awhile now , im also not on the government tit either i have a good job and make decent money..... so it may take me a few months , but it should all be operation by the end of the year.

 

[mm949]

im running a similar set up on my 18ft reef(219x30x48)....i only had 8' head room so putting the filtration under the stand was not an option, but had 20" to spare in total length. im running a double stacked 125gl fuge/sump on the end of the tank. i have a total of (4) hammerhead pumps, (2) closed loops, skimmer & main pump

here another shot from the front side with he finished access panel at the end