Bio-pellets = SPS Fade Colors ?

[aka_lal]

Hi,

I have a 50 gallons reef tank with 90% SPS with 6 month old.
I use a ATB skimmer and 6 x 24w ATI T5 pendant for ilumination.
Nitrates = 0 and phosphates = 0 since day one with the help of GFO and 10% weekly water change.

All my SPS always had good colors but I felt that something was feeding some hair algae in small spot and green film in glass that I had to clean every other day.

So I start using NPX Bioplastics from Two Littler Fish, with only half dose recommended. Two weeks later most of my SPS colors seem faded and some decreased polyp expansion.

Anybody had the same problem? And how did you fix it?

 

[Finland]

There have been a number of threads discussing this topic. You could do a quick search to get a ton of info. On my tank, I ran into the same issues of corals fading. I started feeding much heavier and that took care of it. From what I have read, the pellets strip the water too clean and the corals starve. Feed more.

 

[dan-in-gr]

Hi, I have 90 gal with 40 some SPS frags and mini colonies, my colors are great and things are growing. I put in bio-pellets a month ago and noticed with in the first week less algae on glass, my water is perfect but have 5ppm in nitrates, those will come down soon. I am now feeding the tank more and am using oyster eggs and will be adding other SPS oriented foods shortly. My tank had only two tangs and a lawnmower blenny and had them eat algae in tank, they just got the first of food yesterday as the tank is too clean, you can have that problem.

 

[allsps40]

When dosing a carbon source you must feed the sps a lot more. The PO4 and NO3 that the sps feed off of is now all but gone. So you need to feed them coral foods. The idea is that you are replacing NO3 and PO4 with zooplankton as a food source for the sps. I feed 3-4 times heavier now that I dose carbon.

 

[aka_lal]

Interesting

We add bio-pellets to remove the PO4 and NO3 and then increase food input to have NO3 that we wanted to clean in the first place.

I'll increase food and see what happens in the next 2 weeks

 

[paul_111]

Interesting

We add bio-pellets to remove the PO4 and NO3 and then increase food input to have NO3 that we wanted to clean in the first place.

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder what the point is. Perhaps carbon and GFO are easier...

And check out the thread: "Show off your T5 run (non Zeovit + similar) SPS tank please" http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1885414

 

[subpotentjoe]

the pellets allow you to keep more fish but have perfect water quality. My sps faded also. I switched back to GFO and they colored back up in a couple of weeks. You have to find the healthy balance for feeding with bio pellets. I also had a lot of green slime when I was using the bio pellets. Did you experience any of that?

 

[aka_lal]

Right now I only have a couple o ocellaris, a Strigosus, a ecsenius midas and a six line wrasse and I'm feeding heavier but still is not enough.

As for the green slime, no I didn't got it. Maybe because I'm only using 50% of the amount recomended.

What about AA ? could it help in this situation?

 

[allsps40]

Interesting

We add bio-pellets to remove the PO4 and NO3 and then increase food input to have NO3 that we wanted to clean in the first place.

I'll increase food and see what happens in the next 2 weeks

No its not the NO3 that we are trying to get, we want it gone. You are replacing NO3 as a food source for the sps with natural foods like phyotplankton, zooplankton and amino acids. NO3 and PO4 can be a food source for corals if in the right amounts, however in most tanks this is not the case and the NO3 and PO4 are in higher levels than we want. If you feed the natural foods in the amount that you should in a ULNS to a non ULNS tank then PO4 and NO3 would become uncontrollably high. The natural foods in theory are better for sps as is the ULNS environment, it better mimics the natural reefs. If you simply want to maintain a low level of PO4 and NO3 but not be ULN then run a reactor with GFO and and a fuge to keep the NO3 down. I did this for years with good results. Carbon dosing is not for everyone and every tank. You must be will to commit to it 100%, watch your corals for changes and make needed changes to feeding, MB7 and carbon amounts. I feel you walk a much finer line with a ULNS but the results are well worth the extra effort, once dialed in it becomes much simpler. I am still getting my feeding dialed in now that I have the right MB7 and carbon source amount down.

 

[Acrotrdco]

I've been using NP Biopellets for well over a year and I only feed my corals once a week, sometimes once every two weeks, and they're doing just fine.

In fact, they've shown some amazing PE's even during the day and I've some leather coral frag growing from underneath a live rock showing that there're enough bacteria (produced by consuming the NPBP thus limiting NO3/PO4) in the water column where my corals constantly feed on.

For that reason, I just don't think I need to feed my corals more often than once a week.

 

[jnc914]

I have been using WM EcoBak for almost 4 months and I can attest that it does strip your water. I have no algaes in my tank and I have no readings for phosphates and nitrates. I also run GFO and GAC. I also noticed a slight fading, but upped the feedings to 3x a week. I dose Zeo Aminos, Zeo Coral Food, and Pohl's Xtra and it has definitely brought my colors back. I can't complain at all about the growth, it has definitely increased since the bio-pellets.

 

[paul_111]

I've been using NP Biopellets for well over a year and I only feed my corals once a week, sometimes once every two weeks, and they're doing just fine.

In fact, they've shown some amazing PE's even during the day and I've some leather coral frag growing from underneath a live rock showing that there're enough bacteria (produced by consuming the NPBP thus limiting NO3/PO4) in the water column where my corals constantly feed on.

For that reason, I just don't think I need to feed my corals more often than once a week.

That's interesting... I thought the bacteria was supposed to partially supplement the corals as well, but I'm not convinced I'm seeing the corals benefitting from this more readily-available food. I wonder why most need to feed their tanks heavily while you do not.

How heavily stocked is your tank (fish, corals)? What volume of biopellets are you running? How often (and what volume) do you replenish them? Is your reactor output aimed toward the intake of your skimmer? Do you feel your skimmer is doing a good job of pulling the bacteria out? Perhaps you are under-skimming, leaving more bacteria, and therefore, more food available.

Just some thoughts.

Regards,
Paul

 

[dzhuo]

In fact, they've shown some amazing PE's even during the day and I've some leather coral frag growing from underneath a live rock showing that there're enough bacteria (produced by consuming the NPBP thus limiting NO3/PO4) in the water column where my corals constantly feed on.

I have been following the bio-pellets evolution for a while now but I am still not convince this is in fact the case. I do believe the theory is sound and that the bacteria does feed on C/N/P and when they are removed via skimming, it helps to keep these levels down. In fact, the article in AA shows carbon dosing does not increase water bound bacteria:

Overall, the major conclusions from these carbon dosing experiments are

1. Addition of a carbon source (EtOH or uncharacterized organic "gunk") to reef tank water removed from a reef environment leads to dramatic increases in the water column bacteria load.
2. Addition of a carbon source (EtOH) to an active reef tank via a recommended schedule does not lead to any measurable increase in water column bacteria load.
3. Fresh 1-day old saltwater prepared in a non-sterile environment has a bacteria load approximately 10x that of skimmed reef tank water.

Point 2 and 3 are the most surprise.

 

[Acrotrdco]

That's interesting... I thought the bacteria was supposed to partially supplement the corals as well, but I'm not convinced I'm seeing the corals benefitting from this more readily-available food. I wonder why most need to feed their tanks heavily while you do not.

How heavily stocked is your tank (fish, corals)? What volume of biopellets are you running? How often (and what volume) do you replenish them? Is your reactor output aimed toward the intake of your skimmer? Do you feel your skimmer is doing a good job of pulling the bacteria out? Perhaps you are under-skimming, leaving more bacteria, and therefore, more food available.

Just some thoughts.

Regards,
Paul

My tank is heavily stocked with corals (SPS dominated), with about 6 small fishes in the DT, 1 small demsel in the sump (long story).

I feed my fishes once daily (1 cube of frozen brine shrimps or mysis).

I'm using about 400-500mL of NPBP in my reactor, and the output is released in the same chamber as the skimmer is located, and it's producing quite a lot of skimmate.

My skimmer is rated for 150G of water and my tank (including sump) is about 65G, so I'm overskimming.

Another additional note, however, I am dosing 2 drops of KZ Sponge Power a day.

I have been following the bio-pellets evolution for a while now but I am still not convince this is in fact the case. I do believe the theory is sound and that the bacteria does feed on C/N/P and when they are removed via skimming, it helps to keep these levels down. In fact, the article in AA shows carbon dosing does not increase water bound bacteria:

Point 2 and 3 are the most surprise.

Granted I have never examined the water under microscope, so I cannot tell if that's indeed the case either, but here's the PE of my millies in my tank during the day:

And during the night:

 

[allsps40]

You say you dont feed a lot but your do feed well. 1 frozen cube a day for the fish and feed the corals once a week. I feed about the same to the fish daily only I feed a coral food a little more so not a big difference. I used to not feed the corals at all and the fish 3-4 times a week before I ran a ULNS.

 

[Acrotrdco]

I rinse my brine shrimp and mysis thoroughly with RO/DI water before feeding my fish, they're too large for SPS polyps to grab and feed on.

Granted, there'll be some DOC in the water from the feeding but as far as I know there's no measurable NO3 and PO4 in my system (Salifert test kit).

Compared to folks who feed their corals daily, I'm only feeding perhaps once every 1-2 weeks.

 

[BuckeyeTodd]

for all you pellet users, what benefit do they provide that you can't get from GFO. From what I've read they lower nitrates and to some extent po4. Seems like GFO accomplishes similar goals with less risk of bacterial bloom, etc. Am I missing something?

 

[Acrotrdco]

GFO only controls PO4, it doesn't control NO3.

NP Biopellets control NO3 and to some extend PO4, likewise for ZEOvit/NeoZeo/Ultra Lith zeolite systems they also need to use some GFO to control PO4.

Ever since I've used NPBP I never had any issue with NO3 anymore, just traces of PO4 left, and with GFO even that trace of PO4 is gone.

 

[BuckeyeTodd]

If it worked for N and P that'd be great, but if you still need gfo is it worth the side effects and the risk of clog/loss of tumbling?

 

[Acrotrdco]

You still need something for N control anyway, it's either running a denitrator, a zeolite system, VSV or biopellets, and I've chosen biopellets.

I've been running the pellets for well over a year, there is minimal maintenance to the pellet reactors, I clean it once perhaps every 6 months that's it, there's no risk of clogging or loss of tumbling (as long as you don't use any filter wool).

Besides, the bacteria (aka biofilm) produced by the pellets are actually helping the growth of my corals.

I know this because prior to using biopellets I've used some 1/8" filter wool in my GFO reactor without any problem, but after using biopellets, the filter wool is completely clogged by the biofilm after just 3 days.

I now run both my pellet and GFO reactors (I've to put the GFO in a bag and rinse it once every 2 weeks) without using any filter wool.

Comparing to zeolite systems, NPBP is virtually maintenance free.