Blue Tang with ich, a question

[msmith619]

I have a 120 gallon reef tank with a large amount of LPS and sps corals.
Tank inhabitants include: a 3 inch Rock Beauty, yellowhead jawfish, firefish, cleaner wrasse, 2 pajama cardinals, 2 yellowtail damsels and 2 Talbot's damsels.

I added a 2 inch Regal (blue Hippo) tang 3 - 4 weeks ago. He was quarantined for 4 weeks before introduction. Within 3 days he was covered in ich....my heart sank. But, he showed no signs of illness. The life cycle of the ich should have a few days of a spot free fish but, he has been continuously covered completely in white spots, as if I took him out and rolled him in salt.

The Regal tang is now 2-3 weeks of head to toe white spots, literally covered in ich. None of the other fish have shown any signs of ich, scratching, loss of appetite, or acting sick. He is eating well and I soak frozen, pellets and flake in garlic and feed at least 5 times a day. He is fat and eating well and showing no signs of feeling sick.

I do not have a quarantine tank as I gave the old tank (56 gallon reef transferred to the 120) away. I cannot use copper.

After reading numerous articles, I have decided against adding Kick Ich or Ich Attack to my closed reef system as being dubious at best and possibly toxic to my corals at worst.
That being said, I have no way to catch a 2 inch regal tang in a 120 gallon reef tank with live rock and extensive coral.

BTW: I have several cleaner shrimp, skunk and fire and no, they show no interest in cleaning the ich for all of those who recommend cleaner shrimp.
I also have a cleaner wrasse (who eats frozen and flake well) and he really works the Tang over but, does not seem to making any headway on the ich.

I am wondering.......
Seachem makes Metronidazole and Focus.
Seachem Metronidazole for internal treatment of ich makes sense. In medicine we use Metronidazole to treat protozoan infections as well as amoebic infections.
Cryptocaryon irritans (also known as marine white spot disease or marine ich) is a species of ciliate protozoa that parasitizes marine fish, and is one of the most common causes of disease in marine aquaria.
Since ich is a protozoa, it should respond to Metronidazole.
Using Seachem Focus, which also contains nitrofurantoin, an antibiotic to help any secondary infections, to bind the Metronidazole to the food for internal usage should treat the attached protazoa and kill it at that stage.
If you use it all thru the life cycle, any protozoa that attach the fish should die and effectively rid the tank of the infection.

I am going to try:
Fishkeeper additive for Marine and Reef (made by Tropical Science)
http://************.com/2010/03/25/fishkeeper-additive-marine-reef/
as it claims to treat ich. I am using it mostly as a health supplement, not as the treatment, I think it will help keep the fish healthy during the treatment.

And add:
Seachem Metronidazole and Seachem Focus to see if it works.
It just feels better than feeding and waiting and I just cannot tear the system down to treat with copper.
I will post pictures later and progress reports.

This is an experiment. I know hyposalinity, copper, etc. but, those are not feasable for me. I AM NOT trying to contradict anyone about ich treatment, just wondering about an alternative therapy and willing to give it a try.

 

[ska d]

I'm not understanding how you qt. You had an established tank (56g) transfered everything into the new 120g and then qt the hippo in the empty 56?

 

[SaltWaterAdam]

Good luck... That's why we preventatively treat for ich... This exact example.

 

[msmith619]

The tang was quarantined at the lfs. He had a QT tank in the back where it was alone for 4 weeks. This was a stand alone tank and I visited twice a week to view the progress and his eating.

 

[Deinonych]

Obviously, the LFS's concept of quarantine is insufficient for eliminating common marine diseases. I've not used Metronidazole to treat cryptocaryon, and I have not seen it advocated on these boards. The most effective treatments IME are Cupramine (copper) and chloroquine phosphate.

 

[ska d]

this is a tough one. lets assume it was quarantined properly. you visited the fish 2 x a week, and the fish showed no sign of sickness, and so probably wasnt to stressed out. within 3 days of introducing it into your system it got stressed out enough to get full blown ich. the transfer obviously produced some stress. anything else stressing it out, did you just transfer from the 56 to the 120 or has the 120 been up for awhile. any larger fish picking on him. acclimation?/including light schedule. try to eliminate as many things you can think of that may be causing stress. forget the pellets, flakes, etc..get it eating nori/seaweed. you can get already with garlic ( just helps with appetite) i think Ocean Nutrition has garlic. get different colors, red and green and brown. put some on a clip some on rock with an elastic band. dont worry about feeding it any thing else even though it is eating what you are putting in. dont worry about the other fish, they will be fine. the hippo needs its natural diet to build its strength and immune system back up. feed it everyday and cut back when it gets stronger. id hold off on the medication and use it as a last resort. moving now to a qt is pointless and would likely stress the fish to death anyway.

 

[MrTuskfish]

If you find a reef safe ich cure; get a good business plan and a lawyer. This is the Holy Grail of fish meds and doesn't exist yet. I can't imagine not having a QT/HT. They are a necessity, not just a handy accessory.

 

[MrTuskfish]

this is a tough one. lets assume it was quarantined properly. you visited the fish 2 x a week, and the fish showed no sign of sickness, and so probably wasnt to stressed out. within 3 days of introducing it into your system it got stressed out enough to get full blown ich. the transfer obviously produced some stress. anything else stressing it out, did you just transfer from the 56 to the 120 or has the 120 been up for awhile. any larger fish picking on him. acclimation?/including light schedule. try to eliminate as many things you can think of that may be causing stress. forget the pellets, flakes, etc..get it eating nori/seaweed. you can get already with garlic ( just helps with appetite) i think Ocean Nutrition has garlic. get different colors, red and green and brown. put some on a clip some on rock with an elastic band. dont worry about feeding it any thing else even though it is eating what you are putting in. dont worry about the other fish, they will be fine. the hippo needs its natural diet to build its strength and immune system back up. feed it everyday and cut back when it gets stronger. id hold off on the medication and use it as a last resort. moving now to a qt is pointless and would likely stress the fish to death anyway.

Moving a fish isn't going to "stress him to death". Ich will kill, though.

 

[ska d]

Moving a fish isn't going to "stress him to death". Ich will kill, though.

You left something out, ich will kill an unhealthy fish, but it wont kill a healthy one. Moving any fish won't kill it but I'd wager moving that one will.

 

[msmith619]

this is a tough one. lets assume it was quarantined properly. you visited the fish 2 x a week, and the fish showed no sign of sickness, and so probably wasnt to stressed out. within 3 days of introducing it into your system it got stressed out enough to get full blown ich. the transfer obviously produced some stress. anything else stressing it out, did you just transfer from the 56 to the 120 or has the 120 been up for awhile. any larger fish picking on him. acclimation?/including light schedule. try to eliminate as many things you can think of that may be causing stress. forget the pellets, flakes, etc..get it eating nori/seaweed. you can get already with garlic ( just helps with appetite) i think Ocean Nutrition has garlic. get different colors, red and green and brown. put some on a clip some on rock with an elastic band. dont worry about feeding it any thing else even though it is eating what you are putting in. dont worry about the other fish, they will be fine. the hippo needs its natural diet to build its strength and immune system back up. feed it everyday and cut back when it gets stronger. id hold off on the medication and use it as a last resort. moving now to a qt is pointless and would likely stress the fish to death anyway.

The 56 was transfered to the 120 3 months ago. The blue tang is the same size as the rock beauty and they are best buds and swim together. The only aggressor was the firefish. I had two and one killed the other. No fish is over 3 inches and the tank is not over crowded.

I have Nori in the tank everyday and throw it away every night. Noone touches it but, it is there. My understanding is that Regal tangs are planktivores and eat mostly meaty foods.

 

[msmith619]

OK. I finally have some pictures. The Blue Hippo moves FAST so, I had to use a flash for the camera to catch him. Please excuse the washed out flash photos of the tang.

Here is the reef tank:





And here is the tang:

 

[MrTuskfish]

You left something out, ich will kill an unhealthy fish, but it wont kill a healthy one. Moving any fish won't kill it but I'd wager moving that one will.

Simply not true. Ich can appear in numbers large enough to be fatal to any fish.

 

[ska d]

Simply not true. Ich can appear in numbers large enough to be fatal to any fish.

no doubt. the debate could go on. the question is what is msmith going to do. theres really only 2 options. ride it out, or catch the fish and start treatmeant. my advice is to cut back on the 5 a day feedings and leave the nori in. put some on a rock with an elastic, it looks more natural. the fish probably arent touching the nori because they are being fed so often. its to late to say well i should have treated while in qt, or i should have set up a qt. its probably to late to even set one up now, unless it was started yesterday. you could treat the whole tank, but its a nice looking tank, i wouldnt chance it..............unless. i start to see another fish flashing and showing signs, now i may not have a choice. and this is all assuming i know what im actually treating. i see bumps and lumps and scratches all the time, and to be honest i havent a clue what im looking at. not saying your fish doesnt have ich.

 

[gone fishin]

Unless you remove all the fish and treat them while leaving your DT fallow you will always have ich in the tank. It is your choice to eradicate the ich or live with it.

 

[MrTuskfish]

unless you remove all the fish and treat them while leaving your dt fallow you will always have ich in the tank. It is your choice to eradicate the ich or live with it.

+1

 

[ska d]

Unless you remove all the fish and treat them while leaving your DT fallow you will always have ich in the tank. It is your choice to eradicate the ich or live with it.

exactly, so if you plan on living with it, your fish will have a better chance the healthier they are.

 

[MrTuskfish]

exactly, so if you plan on living with it, your fish will have a better chance the healthier they are.

I guess this is obviously true. Healthy fish will live longer under any conditions, unless I'm missing something REALLY big.

 

[gone fishin]

I guess this is obviously true. Healthy fish will live longer under any conditions, unless I'm missing something REALLY big.

This is the reason I would opt to treat all the fish and be rid of the ich. I just don't understand why someone would knowingly keep an illness in their tank.

 

[Deinonych]

This is the reason I would opt to treat all the fish and be rid of the ich. I just don't understand why someone would knowingly keep an illness in their tank.

Agreed. I guess the thought of catching and moving fish deters a lot of people. To me, it's a small price to pay for long-term peace of mind.

 

[hjp109]

You can try to raise your salinity a bit... which will help with the ick; however, it wont' go away.. the fish will always be a carrier of ich.. unless you take it out/QT.. and give it some ich curing meds.