Blue Tang with ich, a question

[msmith619]

Progress report:
So, after three weeks of a Blue Hippo covered in ich in my DT and not having a QT, I tried a different (desperate) route.

I have treated 5 days with Fishkeeper additive for Marine and Reef (made by Tropical Science), Seachem Metronidazole and Seachem Focus (Nitrofurantoin) in their food at every feeding.
The ich spots dissapperared 2 days into treatment. I used the Fish Keeper additive for 5 days and am still feeding the Metronidazole and Focus.

It has been 10 days. There is no sign of ich. The tang is fatter and even more active than before. All the fish are still healthy and I did not have to treat the DT. I am going to stop the Metronidazole and Focus today.

I know this is not the recommended course of action but, it was just about my only recourse and, in this case, it worked well. The ich was constant and the poor tang was covered from head to tail every day with hundreds of white spots, never a day without spots for 3 weeks. Two days into this treatment he lost all of the spots. Ich is a protozoan and we use Metronidazole on humans to treat protozoan infections. It just made sense to try it in the food and it seems to be working.

 

[tylersarah]

Following along...

 

[ca1ore]

Are you sure it was ich? I would have thought ich would kill even a healthy fish after that long. I have a pair of hippos that periodically show up with some white spots, but they go away, no other fish are affected, so I assume it is lympho.

 

[reeferstace]

You left something out, ich will kill an unhealthy fish, but it wont kill a healthy one. Moving any fish won't kill it but I'd wager moving that one will.

I would argue that any fish with an infection is an unhealthy one.

 

[ctiq21]

Following along as well. Curious to see how things progress after a few weeks.

 

[Centropyge69]

ich is not contagious!!!!!

ich is not contagious!!!!!

Unless you remove all the fish and treat them while leaving your DT fallow you will always have ich in the tank. It is your choice to eradicate the ich or live with it.

Ich is not a contagious disease, but actually exist on the fish its whole life. it is only when it is stressed out, does Ich have an opportunity to have an outbreak. People go read actual printed literature, anything printed in a book, has been scientifically proven, they even show you the evidence.

 

[Joek86]

I had quite an outbreak of Ich and I think Velvet. I lost quite a few fish, but a couple survived, a leopard wrasse and a black leopard wrasse. Are they less prone to the disease?

How long should I wait before introducing any new fish?

 

[Deinonych]

Ich is not a contagious disease, but actually exist on the fish its whole life. it is only when it is stressed out, does Ich have an opportunity to have an outbreak. People go read actual printed literature, anything printed in a book, has been scientifically proven, they even show you the evidence.

Sorry, but that is incorrect.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

 

[msmith619]

Updated Progress report:
After three weeks of a Blue Hippo being completely covered in ich in my DT and not having a QT, I tried a different route.

I treated 5 days with Fishkeeper additive for Marine and Reef (made by Tropical Science), Seachem Metronidazole and Seachem Focus (Nitrofurantoin) along with Garlic Guard in their food at every feeding. I feed 3-5 times a day and added to both frozen and flake food. No one turned their nosed up at the medicated food.
The ich spots dissapperared 2 days into treatment. I used the Fish Keeper additive for 5 days and the Metronidazole and Focus for a total of 10 days.

This is a full reef tank with SPS, LPS, Gorgonians, and a LTA. There have been NO ILL EFFECTS to any of the reef inhabitants including my snails, hermit crabs and many ornamental shrimp.

It has now been 40+ days since completion of that therapy. There is no sign of ich. The tang is fatter and even more active than before. All the fish are still healthy and I did not have to treat the DT. I stopped the Metronidazole and Focus after 10 days. There has been no recurrence of spots after 3 solid weeks of heavy ich infestation of my Blue Tang.

I 'tested' the tank by adding a One-spot Foxface 2 weeks ago. No recurrence of the ich and no signs of ich on the new fish. I cannot say that the ich has been irradicated. There is no way to know but, a test by adding a new fish did not trigger a stress recurrence in the blue tang or an outbreak in the new Foxface who was very obviously stressed by demonstrating 'blochty' coloration, not feeding and hiding for 3 days before coming out to eat.

I know this is not the recommended course of action but, it was just about my only recourse and, in this case, it worked well. The ich was constant and the poor tang was covered from head to tail every day with hundreds of white spots, never a day without spots for 3 weeks. Two days into this treatment he lost all of the spots. Ich is a protozoan and we use Metronidazole on humans to treat protozoan infections. It just made sense to try it in the food and it seems to be working.

I would not hesitate to use this method again of recommend to others to try even in a full reef tank.

 

[ctiq21]

Thanks for the update. I actually tried exactly what you did and it seemed to almost work. My blue tang looked better after a few days, but then after a week and a half it developed Ich again. I decided to move all the fish to a hospital tank. Glad it worked for you, thought it was working for me, but didn't quite work out.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Updated Progress report:
After three weeks of a Blue Hippo being completely covered in ich in my DT and not having a QT, I tried a different route.

I treated 5 days with Fishkeeper additive for Marine and Reef (made by Tropical Science), Seachem Metronidazole and Seachem Focus (Nitrofurantoin) along with Garlic Guard in their food at every feeding. I feed 3-5 times a day and added to both frozen and flake food. No one turned their nosed up at the medicated food.
The ich spots dissapperared 2 days into treatment. I used the Fish Keeper additive for 5 days and the Metronidazole and Focus for a total of 10 days.

This is a full reef tank with SPS, LPS, Gorgonians, and a LTA. There have been NO ILL EFFECTS to any of the reef inhabitants including my snails, hermit crabs and many ornamental shrimp.

It has now been 40+ days since completion of that therapy. There is no sign of ich. The tang is fatter and even more active than before. All the fish are still healthy and I did not have to treat the DT. I stopped the Metronidazole and Focus after 10 days. There has been no recurrence of spots after 3 solid weeks of heavy ich infestation of my Blue Tang.

I 'tested' the tank by adding a One-spot Foxface 2 weeks ago. No recurrence of the ich and no signs of ich on the new fish. I cannot say that the ich has been irradicated. There is no way to know but, a test by adding a new fish did not trigger a stress recurrence in the blue tang or an outbreak in the new Foxface who was very obviously stressed by demonstrating 'blochty' coloration, not feeding and hiding for 3 days before coming out to eat.

I know this is not the recommended course of action but, it was just about my only recourse and, in this case, it worked well. The ich was constant and the poor tang was covered from head to tail every day with hundreds of white spots, never a day without spots for 3 weeks. Two days into this treatment he lost all of the spots. Ich is a protozoan and we use Metronidazole on humans to treat protozoan infections. It just made sense to try it in the food and it seems to be working.

I would not hesitate to use this method again of recommend to others to try even in a full reef tank.

I'm glad you're seeing some success; but it hasn't been anywhere near long enough to tell if ich is actually gone. Its very common to see ich disappear for a while; if you understand the parasite's life-cycle. its easy to see why. After 6 months or so maybe. I would never suggest any ich cure to anyone unless a QT was involved.

 

[xpertintraining]

I am having an ICJ break out. I do not have the resources r to add another tank. I just lost a wrasse today and I have two angels I am very worried about. I have line same and live rock, but no coral. I have an emerald crab, some hermits and some snails. I have been using Paraguard for 6 days as directed, but situation is worsening. I have been told using copper will make it very difficult to add coral in the future. I AM DESPERATE.

 

[HumbleFish]

Completely off topic but... How are you able to keep a Rock Beauty in a reef tank. I'm jealous!

 

[msmith619]

Completely off topic but... How are you able to keep a Rock Beauty in a reef tank. I'm jealous!

This is my third Rock Beauty in a Reef tank. Rock beauty's are supposed to be:
-Obligate sponge eaters -and-
-next to impossible to keep.

My experience is that:
-if you obtain a helathy specimen, they eat ANYTHING you put in front of them (mine eats flake, spectrum pellets, any and all meaty frozen foods, and turns up his/her nose at Nori)
-My have never liked the sponge-based angel foods
-I have never had one even sample a coral.

I have kept the first two for several years until a move required the breakdown and sale of a tank.
This guy has been with me since July and has almost tripled in size from his 1 1/2" start.

If you want a healthy Rock Beauty, I buy from a collector in Puerto Rico who has a permanent site as an Ebay seller and usually gets Rock Beauty's. I have had fantastic luck with his fish. Always healthy and robust!

 

[Tek]

I am having an ICJ break out. I do not have the resources r to add another tank. I just lost a wrasse today and I have two angels I am very worried about. I have line same and live rock, but no coral. I have an emerald crab, some hermits and some snails. I have been using Paraguard for 6 days as directed, but situation is worsening. I have been told using copper will make it very difficult to add coral in the future. I AM DESPERATE.

It does not cost much for a 10G tank, something to move the water around for aeration, and a cheap heater if the house gets cold. After treatment it can be used as a quarantine tank(QT) for later additions. It will be cheaper than constantly buying medication and losing fish. It is also more cost effective to dose meds in smaller volume of water. Start using a QT for all new fish no matter how long the fish was in another tank or the store.

A display tank will be rid of ich if the parasites are left with no host. It takes at least 10 weeks to clear the DT. I tried 8 weeks once and had to start over when the newly treated fish were once again reinfected after being in QT.

I proactively treat now while the fish is in QT. It has the added benefit of being able to allow finicky eaters to get used to what you feed the others. I can dump in all sorts of food all day and quickly change the water when needed.

Luckily this was just ich. If it was Velvet your fish and the rest in the tank would have died in 48 hours.

 

[xpertintraining]

That is exactly what I ended up doing. I bought a 10 gallon tank and used it as a hospital tank. Unfortunately, I think that it was velvet on top of ich, or maybe just velvet and I misdiagnosed, but I lost everything except for four fish. Interestingly, the two clownfish and the two damsels did not show any signs of infection throughout the entire time. I do have one question or thought... if I leave the display tank completely empty and there are no hosts, it will completely die off. What about if there are immune hosts like the clown fish? Will it still continue the cycle even though they don't show infection, or will it still die off in 10 weeks without an infectable host?

 

[Tek]

The DT needs to be free of fish for 10 weeks. No fish is immune. The parasites just need time to reproduce in numbers or wait until the fish are weak to overcome them.

For example. This year every fish purchase from my LFS has come down with velvet. No matter how long the fish had been there it breaks out once I bring it home. Either they have it suppressed with a medicated tank or have the salinity lowered. But not enough to eradicate it. The first time I was complacent over these years and did not QT this purchase. It wiped out even my healthy Tangs and Butterflies within 48 hours. By the time I saw symptoms and caught them it was too late to treat. The second time thankfully the new fish was in QT and did not infect any others. It came on overnight and was too far gone to save.

This is the reason I proactively treat a few hours after acclimation and making sure they are feeding.

Familairize yourself with the diseases and which treatments are the most effective. Have some of the harder to get meds handy. There are some good stickys and reads online. This information is critical once you decide to keep expert level fish such as Angels and such.

 

[xpertintraining]

Thank you for the advice. I know nothing good happens fast and no shortcuts... but one can hope. ;-) My clowns look so pitiful in the 10 gallon. Also, if there are no fish (don't have coral yet), how do you maintain the nitrogen cycle in the DT? Does the live rock / live sand start to die, provide nitrogen, recolonize, etc. maintaining the loop? Believe me, I will not under-quarantine again.

 

[Tek]

The tank will be fine with no fish and the bacteria will still be there with no feeding.

I have 2" regal tank in my 10G QT right now due to a bacteria infection from fighting. Better it is in there recovering than in the DT tank getting beat up. I am putting it into my 2nd tank once all is well. I am also treating it for possible flukes which might have survived the first round of treatment.

When I proactively treat the fish in QT it speeds up the needed QT time. It goes against some of the reasons for having a QT but it is also better than not using one.

 

[xpertintraining]

I'm glad I found this forum because there is just too much bad information coming from some LFSs and product manufacturers. I understand their POV, but it is frustrating. I checked my pH and was shocked that it dropped and didn't know why. After constantly checking I realized that the ammonia treatment I was sold was the culprit, despite the "will not affect pH" on the label. I think those things are what frustrated me most trying to get into the hobby without harming the livestock.