Bubbles coming up from undergravel filter

BKRJIM

New member
Hello,
i have not posted many times on the site, so please bear with me. Here is the deal:
I am an old school saltwater man. I have a 125 gallon tank. It has about 14 fish. 5 good size tangs, yellow/purple/ hippo, achilles.naso. I also have a flame angel, some damsels, clowns,chromis,royal gramma,and some type of anthias that looks like a speckeled hawkfish. All the fish are doing great, some are over 10 years old. The yellow tang is 17 yrs old. Started him in a 20 gallon tank. I also have peppermint shrimp, cleaner shrimp, fore shrimp, nassuris snails, regular snails, and millions of astrea starfish, along with all the usual reef dwelling things that come out at night or hide. About 5 years ago, i started to put in corals. Mostly soft corals like mushrooms and feather dusters , kendra trees, frogspawn, easy stuff and such.

My setup consist of a 125 gallon tank, 72" long, 18 " wide. 23" deep. A 40 watt u.v., a reef octopus protien skimmer, a 20 gallon sump with one half live rock, the other sand bed with mangrove trees. 300 gal. Per flow rate, there is activated carbon in a large bag, two types of absorbing pads also in this sump/refugium. An undergravel filter that has been in the tank for over ten years with three powerheads pulling (1200 gals per hour all three combined) water up the tubes. A wp40 wavemaker, about 100 lbs of live rock in the tank, another 75 lbs of crushed coral, and a chiller. I just changed over my light from 3 20000k halides, 150w and 4 compac 50/50/ bulbs, along with moonlights. I know have 3 full spectrum led fixtures with 165 watts about 15" above the tank. This was done two weeks ago.

My water is 78 degrees, the salinity is at 1.026, the ph is 8.3, the calcium is 520, the phosphates are .20, the ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 30-40. Do not have a dk tester? Dissolved oxygen is 6.8 i use r/o d/o water to top off and monthly water changes of about 25 -30 gallons. My tank evaporates about 2 1/2 gallons a day.

All the soft corals appear to be fine. Feather dusters, the big ones, seem to pop up wherever and grow, coco worms, not so good. My acans stayed small, never grew nice heads, and have occasional polyp bail out as do my trumpet corals. Mushrooms thrive. These corals are over 4 years old.hammers and frogspawn fine, but usually don't fully open. Snake polyps fine, green star fine, cabbage coral great. Acros fade away and die. Birdsnest two weeks died.cactus coral ok so far 1 month old.

My question is: My undergravel filter seems to lately bee producing very large amounts of bubbles that come up the tube and get supercharged by the powerhead into billions of tiny bubbles.

Does anybody know what type of gas that is. It does not have any foul smell to it. It does not seem to effect the fish or the corals, but bubble algea has gone wild. I can not keep up with it. Any help and advise is welcome.

My tank has been set up so long that it is virtually impossible to remove all the rock, as the corals have attached the rocks together by spreading onto the rocks. There are so many organisms and stuff living in this, i am afraid i will ruin the tank if i break it down. I need yo know what the bubbles are. I am hoping it is oxygen from bacteria converting the nitrate or other waste. Again all help truly appreciated.

Sorry so long winded, but the other blogs i read, it seems that the askers never give enough information about their tanks.
 
I think that you need to contact PaulB ... I believe that he has been using an UG filter for 40+ yrs, although probably with reverse flow.
After all these years there is probably a lot of 'crap' under that filter plate that needs to come out.
 
Does it smell like rotten eggs? If so it is hydrogen sulfide (a potent central nervous system antagonist, if you can smell it you have been exposed). This results from anaerobic bacteria running out of nitrates to eat and turning to sulphates. Not as bad as it sounds but the smell will usually make your SO not happy. And too much hydrogen sulfide in the water will kill your fish.

If it does not smell, it is nitrogen gas. The results from anaerobic bacteria eating nitrates. As someone used to say, "Its a good thing".
 
Hi, thanks for the responces.
I have stuck my nose right on top of the water when a big gush of bubbles gets blown out. There is absolutley no smell at all. The size of the bubbles is huge, about every five to ten minutes. I have the powerhead pointed at my wavemaker and it looks like the beach where the surf is crashing. So then no smell is good? Nitrogen only? This will not hurt anything. Could the nitrogen be feeding the bubble algea? My gravel looks like a lawn. It's driving me nuts. Thanks, jim
 
You have a big phosphate problem, I would start using a liquid phosphate remover to get your phosphate under control then start using GFO, PS I used to be in the UG filter club back in the 80's with a huge bio load.
 
The phosphates are at .20. Is that really high? I would love to see zero. I am curently cutting way back on my feeding. I was an avid overfeeder. Thought that was keeping my fish healthy. Also, do not mean to sound dumb but..what is gfo?
 
Hi, the sandbed is about 2 -3" thick. There are a few small pieces of live rock, and the mangrove trees are rooted into the sand. The water flows down from the tank, through the uv, and into the sump/refugium in the the side with live rock, that overflows thru baffles and then runs down the side of a baffle into the sand bed chamber, which has about 4" of water in it, which then spills over into another small section filled with more live rock and the return pump.i have the activated carbon on the sand bedside so the flow goes through it. The absorb pads are under where the tank pours in on top. There is alot of hair algea in between the baffle plates. I tried cheato algea in the live rock side many times, but it just disappears. It is illuminated with grow incandesant bulbs. Lots of copepods. Thanks for your responces. Any ideas?
 
I just found the ultra life liquid phosphate remover online 4 oz. for $22. free ship. I ordered it. gonna give it a try. anything I need to know about using it? thanks, jim
 
ok.. I am looking at an in-line phosphate reactor also. I am limited on room and have to put it between the back of my tank and the wall, 4" wide max. I am going to put it in the sump return line to the tank. this reactor is 3 1/2" wide and 9 1/2 " long. the flow will be from the bottom up.The phosphatfilter Fe contains 400 ml of Aqua Medic's Antiphos Fe (High Capacity Granular Ferric Oxide or GFO), which has been granulated to the perfect sizes for this reactor. is this the right agent that I will need? do these work? anybody tried them? again, all wisdom is appreciated. thanks, jim
 
Is this a regular UG filter? If so, it is woefully clogged and needs to be stirred up. I am not sure what would happen if you did that now as it is way over due. If it is a reverse UG filter, it is also clogged and the tiny bubbles that are getting pushed down the tubes build up into large bubbles and rise up the tubes. About twice a year I stir up my entire tank and suck out any detritus with a diatom filter but my reef is over 40 years old. If I did not do this it would clog and I would have your problems.
Forget reactors of any kind, clean the gravel.
 
thanks paul. I just now finished vacuuming up all the gravel way down to the filter. I can not believe how much I pulled out. it was awful. as I hit the plates, I started to suck up air bubbles from the filter. all is clean now. changed about 60% of the water in the process. you don't think the phosphate reactor is a good idea. why is that? I do not know much about them. I found out the bubble algae is actually a dinoflagella bacteria. I was recommended to use hydrogen peroxide doses of about 10ml a day, about 120 gals of total water in my system. and no lights. what do you think?
 
anything

anything

I just found the ultra life liquid phosphate remover online 4 oz. for $22. free ship. I ordered it. gonna give it a try. anything I need to know about using it? thanks, jim

I would start with about a half of the eye dropper into the tank, I would either put it in the sump or the overflow it can cause the water to get cloudy if you use to much, start off small until you get the hang of it, the bottle goes a long way, don't over do it. I would not start GFO until you get your phosphates under control with the liquid stuff, GFO can be used in a couple of days, so it use the liquid first.
 
ok. will do. half the dropper is good for about 120 gals of water correct? does it work fast? and do I continue the same dose the second time? what should I expect to happen. and the next phosphate check would be how long after the 1st dose? can this stuff really bring it to zero? and then add the reactor to the system? thanks again for your help.
 
Yes you use it daily you will need to start checking your phosphate levels. GFO is like a sponge if you put it in a tank with high phosphate it will use it up really fast like a day or two, that is why you use the liquid to get it down and then use the GFO.
 
ok.. makes sense ..thanks for the help. any recommendations on a gfo reactor? I am short on space. thanks again. ever hear of hydrogen peroxide in he tank? any experience?
 
I am not a fan of phosphate reducers, hydrogen peroxide or almost anything else. The bacteria do all that for free without screwing up any parameters.
 
I would follow Paul B advice that way you will not get your eye off the 8 ball, fix your sand bed take care of the dinoflagella and if you are having problems with phosphate we can look at that later.
Hydrogen peroxide is used to spot kill algae on rocks not to be dosed. I used it to kill some brown slime on my rocks.
 
OK.. I KEEP READING THAT IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET RID OF THE dinoflagella ONCE IT IS IN THE TANK. IT SEEMS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAD SUCESS WERE THE ONES WHO USED THE H2O2. PAUL, YOU DO THE REVERSE FLOW. IS THAT BETTER? CAN I CHANGE MY FLOW DIRECTION OR IS IT TOO LATE? ARE THE PHOSPAHTES FEED ING THE DINO? THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU.
 
Back
Top