Butterfly Behavior and Introducing QT Butterflies to DT Butterflies

[Dr Colliebreath]

I just moved my YLN and falcula from the QT to the DT. The DT has a ulietensis and a saddleback (both introduced together about 2 months ago). They get along well and hang out together most of the time. Both are excellent eaters. When I feed pellets at a feeding station, they both eat together except that when most of the pellets are gone, the ulitensis chases the saddleback away to keep the remaining food to himself.

The YLN went in first. Only the blue lights were on. Both the ulitensis and the saddleback flared their fins at the YLN and crowded it, but otherwise they were fine. I turned the lights out.

I then introduced the falcula. It is at least twice as big as the ulitensis and the saddleback. The saddleback pretty much left the falcula alone but the ulietensis hassled it continuously, nipping at its fins. The falcula doesn't seem to have fought back very much. It also doesn't seem particularly concerned, as it stays out in the open. All lights in the tank and most in the rooms are out so the tank is mostly dark.

How long do I let fin-nipping go on before concluding the fish aren't going to get along? Keep them together so long as no actual damage is being done and the falcula isn't hiding? Any chance the falcula will stand up for itself or the ulietensis will accept it?

 

[SDguy]

Butterflies can be very aggressive toward each other, especially similar looking ones. I would personally never put a falcula and ulietensis together. IME the aggression got worse over time, not better. Tank size may play a role...how big is the tank?

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

The tank is a 110 gallon, 5' long, with plenty of different passage ways and separate caves in the rock.

I ended up with the ulietensis due to a mistake when I ordered a falcula and in hindsight I shouldn't have let them ship me the falcula. Peter, I know you previously indicated I might have a difficult time getting a falcula in the tank, but since I already had it I needed to try. I hoped this falcula would make it given it is so much bigger than the ulietensis. Also, LiveAquaria lists the ulietensis as peaceful and the falcula as semi-aggressive. Bigger and more aggressive fish going in second seemed to be the right order if it was to work.

I started wondering when the ulietensis began chasing the saddleback from the feeding station a couple of weeks ago. It doesn't surprise me that there is some initial conflict between the ulietensis and the falcula given their similar appearance. However, I was surprised when the ulietensis and saddleback (to a lesser extent) bothered the YLN.

I will see what tomorrow brings, but the ulietensis cost me my (few) corals and now seems to be a problem with other fish. I am not sure whether putting it in the QT for a while will help or whether it just needs to find another home. It is a shame, because it is a very nice fish.

 

[SDguy]

I say hope for the best, but have a backup plan if things don't go well.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

I may need to develop your fish-trapping skills. I may be able to separate them in the DT with a piece of eggcrate for a while if necessary.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

I say hope for the best, but have a backup plan if things don't go well.

Like accelerating my plans for a much larger tank such as a new 300? :spin1: That would provide some flexibility.

 

[jjk_reef00]

My falcula did nothing to defend itself when my auriga was chasing him last night. By the way this fish eats there I just can't see my falcula being aggressive to anyone. LA lists the Auriga and Teardrop as peaceful but I would have to disagree. I've seen some aggression from my teardrop and lots from the Auriga. Although all aggression is towards other B/F. I've read that teardrops and saddlebacks both can be somewhat aggressive at times.

My falcula is a very strong swimmer and likes to ride the current created by my vortech, so I think your tank might be too small for two very active fish that look almost identical. When I step back and look at my tank I shouldn't have added the auriga and falcula because from 10' away they look like almost the same fish. The colors and shapes are very similar.

What might save you is the size difference. Back when I use to keep tangs it would take anywhere from 3-10 days for them to really settle down, but that tank was overcrowded and I would always add more than one fish at a time. If you really want to keep both fish I would stick it out for a few more days as long as you don't see any serious damage, and keep the lights low for longer periods if you can.

 

[jjk_reef00]

Like accelerating my plans for a much larger tank such as a new 300? :spin1: That would provide some flexibility.

Now your talking!

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

The aggression has decreased substantially so I am cautiously hopeful that it will work out. The ulietensis still bothers the falcula from time to time, charging it and nipping at its fins. The falcula doesn't seem to care. It normally doesn't even bother tilting its body away from the attack, and I am not sure the ulietensis is connecting with the nips. The falcula just goes about its business, cruising the tank and eating, and it ignores the attacks. It doesn't take any evasive action or avoid the ulietensis, and it constantly swims by the ulietensis. The falcula is eating more aggressively than when it was in the QT so it probably recognizes that it has to go after food or it will lose out to the other fish.

The tank got a couple of extra feedings so far today.

I wish the falcula would just turn on the ulietensis and put it in its place as that likely would terminate the aggression completely. At one point during feeding, the falcula went after some food towards the ulietensis and the ulietensis darted away, so it seems to know that the falcula has the upper hand given its size.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

My falcula is a very strong swimmer and likes to ride the current created by my vortech, so I think your tank might be too small for two very active fish that look almost identical.

What might save you is the size difference. Back when I use to keep tangs it would take anywhere from 3-10 days for them to really settle down, but that tank was overcrowded and I would always add more than one fish at a time. If you really want to keep both fish I would stick it out for a few more days as long as you don't see any serious damage, and keep the lights low for longer periods if you can.

The aggression is almost non-existent today, mostly only some when food was in the tank and the falcula doesn't seem to care. I will see whether the next week brings peace or a sudden eruption. I don't recall seeing many stories of butterflies suddenly becoming extra aggressive like you see regarding tangs.

I wanted to add one more butterfly, likely a copperband or marginalis. I am starting to wonder whether that will be a problem.

 

[SDguy]

Something to keep in mind. IME, as they settle in, they can get more aggressive, not less, especially around feeding times.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Something to keep in mind. IME, as they settle in, they can get more aggressive, not less, especially around feeding times.

I knew you were going to say something like this. :fun2:

I will just have to see whether the ulietensis will lay off after finding that it still gets enough food.

It is strange that the falcula just lets the ulietensis charge it from underneath or the sides rather than facing the ulietensis and charging back. That would end the problem as the ulietensis wouldn't be able to stand up to the falcula.

 

[SDguy]

Sorry, wasn't trying to be a wet blanket. Just wanted to give you a heads up to keep your eyes open, that's all. Hopefully they'll all be fine together!

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

No problem. There is every indication of aggression at feeding and even when I come within 10 feet of the tank and the fish think/hope there is food to come.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Something to keep in mind. IME, as they settle in, they can get more aggressive, not less, especially around feeding times.

These words ring so true. I know you indicated you said in another thread that you have seen aggression in ulietensis butterflies.

To update this thread, the aggression went away completely after a couple of days except at feeding time, when the ulietensis takes constant shots at the falcula. The falcula doesn't seem to mind at all and just chases down food and ignores the ulietensis. I feed the ulietensis some pellets or flakes first and then really spread the main food around to help lessen the effect of the aggression. I tried feeding the falcula from my fingers but the ulietensis became less afraid of my fingers in the tank after a while.

The ulietensis has knocked 3 or 4 scales off the falcula. It seems to go after the falcula's body rather than its fins. A mix of nips and charges with its dorsal fin.

The ulietensis ignores the longnose. It sometimes chases the saddleback when the autofeeder puts pellets in during the day (only those two eat the pellets). I am going to add a couple more fish and will see if the increased number of fish limit aggressiveness or make it worse. Maybe a sohal tang would calm the ulietensis. :fun2:

 

[SDguy]

Or you can just send the falcula to me

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Ok, it is in the mail, but I might make a mistake and send the ulietensis. :lol2:

I am surprised that the ulietensis has proved to be so much of a problem as I thought it was listed as being peaceful. I know you posted on the butterflies in reefs thread that you have seen them be aggressive. Do you have any idea whether the ulietensis will be less inclined to draw attention to itself if a more dominant fish is in the tank? I do need a tang in there to graze my nice crop of algae.

 

[SDguy]

I'm not sure about that. It's been my experience that butterfly aggression is very focused on other butterflies, and other fish are not involved, regardless if they are more or less aggressive.

 

[jjk_reef00]

Ok, it is in the mail, but I might make a mistake and send the ulietensis. :lol2:

I am surprised that the ulietensis has proved to be so much of a problem as I thought it was listed as being peaceful. I know you posted on the butterflies in reefs thread that you have seen them be aggressive. Do you have any idea whether the ulietensis will be less inclined to draw attention to itself if a more dominant fish is in the tank? I do need a tang in there to graze my nice crop of algae.

I doubt it. My Auriga continued his aggression towards similar looking fish even with the tear drop and raccoon beating on him daily. I just removed him and I'm hoping things will settle down.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

I was putting pellets in one corner of the tank to distract the ulietensis and feeding the other fish elsewhere in the tank so they got their fair share. Much to my chagrin, the ulitensis has learned to wait for the other food. Now I have to withhold the other food until the ulietensis starts filling up on the pellets (NLS).