Calfo Style Overflow boxes

It is not the "film" but the air/water interaction. We are not talking about something that takes minutes, this is not a skimmer. We are talking about the surface tension of the water and how quickly that sheet of water can be renewed. Double the width of the overflow and you double the renewal rate.

The idea is to move as much of the protien away from the display as possible, as fast as possible so that it does not have a chance to interact with other protiens or compounds in the tank.

Like I said, do some research and you may find that your thinking is somewhat off on this. Your looking at it as a "surface scum" problem, not a chemical and physical bonding problem.

Is there a point of diminishing returns? Of course there is. But you simply can not draw the line at some arbitrary point and say "I think you guys are making too much of this".

Like I said, I pefer to err on the side of overkill.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9500486#post9500486 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by steelerguy
loves saltwater, so you are only using one of the drains in your overflow? Where are you draining from to your sump?

I was originally planning on drilling 4 1" bulkheads in the overflow. 2 would drain to the sump and 2 would be tee'd together and go to the closed loop pump. What I may do is just drill 2 holes in the overflow to start with and test the closed loop. If it looks like the overflow is having problems keeping up while staying silent I'll just use those holes for the sump. If it is not having any problems, I'll hope I can add another 250 gph of drainage without problems.

Yes I am only using a 3/4 BH to drain to my sump
 
It is not the "film" but the air/water interaction. We are not talking about something that takes minutes, this is not a skimmer. We are talking about the surface tension of the water and how quickly that sheet of water can be renewed. Double the width of the overflow and you double the renewal rate.

no, we are talking about the same thing. by 'film' i mean the same thing you do by 'surface tension'. doesn't have to be thick and gooey to be a 'film' as you might be thinking, think of it as a microscopic film, even if the individual proteins are few and far between. and it is kinda like a skimmer. think pre-skimmer. the atmosphere is 1 big rotating bubble with a squeege (the overflow) on one side to peel proteins off.

the minutes/seconds i am talking about is pretty much the same thing as your renewal rate, i was just taking it a step further and applying that to tank size to actually mean something and put it in perspective. for example doubling your money sounds great in theory, doubling 1000 bucks is something and worth some effort. but doubling a penny is nothing.


The idea is to move as much of the protien away from the display as possible, as fast as possible so that it does not have a chance to interact with other protiens or compounds in the tank.
i've been looking for proof for or against this but haven't found it so consider this part pulled out of my butt: i've wondered if long chains hanging from the surface have a chance at grabbing other chains that aren't close enough to the interface to get grabbed on their own. seems that clumping would have to be possible, otherwise we wouldn't be able to get a stable foam head in the neck. not sure how polar these are though and how that affects attraction/repulsion. i have some vague memories about this very thing from bio (i can still see the diagram in my head).


Your looking at it as a "surface scum" problem, not a chemical and physical bonding problem.
no, i just called it 'surface scum' because it's a good generic term to use. 1 single protein stuck to the surface is 'scum on the surface'. i am not talking about an oily slick on the surface that is visible to the naked eye and takes days to accumulate.

But you simply can not draw the line at some arbitrary point and say "I think you guys are making too much of this".
but you can draw an arbitrary line and say it is important? this is *exactly* why i am trying to put numbers on the refresh rate to put it in perspective. if my rough numbers said that a full length could clear the surface every 10 seconds vs a smaller one that took 5 minutes, then i would be driving the bandwagon. but when it's probably closer to 10 seconds vs 30 seconds (i figure most conventional overflows are 1/3 the linear length of a full length) it's not that hard to discount.

Like I said, I pefer to err on the side of overkill.
so you'd rather have 10 50w heaters than 2 250s? a 10' skimmer vs a 6' skimmer? a 10" dsb rather than a 6" dsb (assuming you like dsb), build your stand out of 6x6s rather than 2x4s?

so let's back up and look at the pros and cons.

pro: it *might* give you a tiny boost to skimming. heck, might give you a big boost in skimming if you have a *very* slow turnover on a huge wide/long shallow tray tank (so that we were talking 5 minutes vs 15 minutes) and you have a horribly undersized skimmer. kinda like what most greenhouse ops i've seen have been like. then you might have something, but that doesn't mean it translates to a conventional home tank. also better aeration if you have an aeration problem (also not an issue in conventional home tanks).

con: it costs money in glass/acrylic/plumbing, time and effort to cut, drill and install, takes up a large portion of the tank, blocks light, and makes it difficult to hang stuff from the back (waveysea/autofeeders/vortech/...)

even if it did give you a noticeable boost in skimming, i'd say put that money towards a slightly bigger skimmer instead. it'll be much more likely to give you that better skimming you are looking for, won't take up tank space, will react to 'issues' faster than a smaller skimmer, and will get you back better resale value if you decide to sell stuff.
 
is it possible to do this using a single hole drilled in the bottom corner? im thing somthing similar to the shape of a lower case "r" shape. the top part of the r would be about 2ft long
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9499532#post9499532 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
So the only question is "HOW MUCH" flow can you deal with over the weir and still have acceptable surface skimming.
In my case that is 48". With 2300+ gph going over my weir, the water is maybe 1/16" thick.
Hmmm......1/16th of an inch water thickness @ 2300gph on a 48" overflow?
I'm currently modifying my 58g tank so that it has a 23" overflow and I was wondering how thick the water would be over the lip, given a certain flow rate.

I was thinking that a 1200gph return pump would be adequate, but maybe I should reconsider.
Using your numbers (and everything else being equal) my 23" overflow water would be close to 1/16" water thickness @ 1200gph.

I'm lowering the back glass wall to allow for a 1/4" water thickness over the edge, so maybe I should be thinking about a 2400gph pump - or two! Hmmm......
Guy
 
GuySmilie...

If you want the actual water depth over the "weir" you can certainly use "sharp crested" weir models to dtermine the EXACT depth :) My 1/16" is just a guess by looking it it. If I measured it or did the math I may find that it is closer to 1/8" or so. In any case it is very thin and silent. I am also guessing at the 2300 :)

I would use google to find some weir eqautions to get a feel for what kind of depth you are looking at.
 
Here's a little bump ;)


I beleive I do understand what manderx is really saying. Do our tanks produce enough proteins, etc.. to fully require a full-length overflow? Sure, it will be the fastest way of removing these, but once it's removed, how fast is it getting replaced, and is this fast enough to require such length? I agree that a long version is a lot better than the "standard" overflows, but not too sure a full tank-length has as much benefit over, say, a half tank-length, over time.

Personally, I'd probably just do tank-length anyway. Make it just thin enough to fit some elbows in, and if it's tank-length, then there's only one long visual seam (2 technically(front & back)). Plus, there's the extra strength the horizontal plane of glass adds to the back plane of tank glass, quite usefull with all the holes we drill ;) Like it was said - just a lower Eurobrace.

I'd also go for black glass (on a black background) and use black silicone, unlike some of the tanks that use the more obvious clear.
 
I've made one for my tank for several reasons.

1. I made a DIY concrete/styro background and having the tank width overflow boxes didn't really take more than an inch or so away from the display but made it possible to conceal the entire overflow and return bar very easy and helped hide all the "mechanics."

2. It does make all the water across the surface move more. I had a standard overflow box for years and it always bothered me that that box had to "suck" the entire surface towards one corner. I do feel like I get better skimming of the surface overall.

3. Mine is toothless so the overflow isn't very obvious at all.

I'm in the process of switching back over to salt which requires much more flow than fresh. I may possibly redo my background to accomodate more in-tank circulation.

A peeve of mine in tanks is that we strive to make these things as attractive as possible and yet will fill the sucker up with all sorts of cords, boxes, cables, powerheads etc that take away from the aesthetics. I want to look at my tank and see NOTHING mechanical.

I can't even imagine going to a smaller overflow. I have been extraordinarily happy with mine. I found out about the calfo overflow from the Cichlid Forum's DIY section and immediately wanted it. It just doesn't make sense that skimming a small portion over the length of the tank could possibly be worse than skimming an 8" area.
 
Here's my Calfo style overflow that I did for my 120! It's not fully set up yet, but give me time! The box is 18x4x6 with (2) 1" BH's that will both house Dursos standpipes. LMK what you think!
DSCN0822.jpg


DSCN0824.jpg
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9755003#post9755003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Daemonfly

Do our tanks produce enough proteins, etc.. to fully require a full-length overflow? Sure, it will be the fastest way of removing these, but once it's removed, how fast is it getting replaced, and is this fast enough to require such length?
While the overflow does remove the proteins from the water's surface, it only transports them to a different place; usually the skimmer area. They are still available in the water column until something physically removes them. And protein removal from a marine tank is all about efficiency, IMO.
As long as there are living organisms available the production of protein will be a continually occurring process, Therefore, protein is never fully removed. Your skimmate collection cup is a good indicator of this theory. Efficiencies can be realized by the use of devices that will collect more of the protein-laden water (this is typically near the air/water interface), and by the use of efficient skimmer design. And the less efficient the skimmer, the more proteins that are recycled/re-entered back into the tank by the return pump.
Guy
 
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90 gallon tank - 2, 15x4 calfo style partial length overflows (tinted glass). 3/4" feed off one 1" mainline to recirculating skimmer. 3/4" feed of other 1" mainline to refugium left over water from both lines to main sump section. return water pumped through center bulkhead with 2xpenductors pics presetup soon. i would rather take up top of tank horizontally than a full vertical section. light is going to transmit enough for little visual d1fference and live rock which is generally all that is on back 4" of tank real estate anyway.
 
I recently purchased a used 230g. It is a custom tank made by "inter-american" and shipped here from Canada. The front and back of the tank are starfire glass. The original owner had a 2" hole drilled in back right corner and ran the return line up back of outside of tank. The bottom is not tempered. I do not want to run any lines on outside of tank. I want to set tank up to be viewed from both sides as a room divider between office and family room. I have seen "glass cages" on a site and they had 4 holes drilled in one cage in the center of the tank. That looks really good in the picture and it does not take up much room. I am a little bit concerned that the tank would be weak in that spot with all the holes concentrated in a such a small area.

I want to block the original single hole that is already drilled and build some type of overflow boxes in the center of the tank. I'm thinking 2 boxes spaced about 24" apart in order to get good circulation in tank. I would rather have just one but was concerned about getting good circulation in tank. I have been watching the DIY thread on drilling tanks which has given me the confidence to try drilling my tank. I am a little unsure on the best location to install overflow boxes(any info on boxes would also be appreciated). Would love to hear people's experience on where they drilled their larger tanks. And any comments on what they would do different! Is there a thread or site you can refer me to?

Today I stopped by a local glass company to see if they would drill it for me and give me a ballpark estimate on what it will cost. The mgr is supposed to get back to me.

Tell me what size bulheads to use, and where I should drill, and how many overflows you think I should have. I would rather learn from your experiences instead of wasting time and money!

Thanks for you help!
 
igotsalt,
There was a thread a few days (or weeks) back where a guy had a cube tank in the middle of his room with no exposed plumbing. He hid it in the rock landscaping in the center of the tank. I tried a quick search for it but didn't locate it. It's on here somewhere if you're really interested.
Guy
 
tanks for the info! What a beautiful tank! very sad to hear is crashed.

When I said I didn't want stuff hanging off the back, I meant that I did not want the return pipe ran up the back side of tank since the tank was being view from both sides of room! I do not like the original design of my tank having only one hole drilled in back right corner.

I need some help in design ideas for the overflows. The new mega_ _ _ _ - do not fit the 230g but could probably be modified to fit. I mentioned earlier I saw the "glass cages" used as overflows and wondered if they would be better than trying to modify a kit, I have only seen these products in pictures so I do not know the pros and cons of either! I have seen DIY overflows made with PVC and other piping custom made to the tank that would get the job done but not necessarily the most effective. Cost effective ...yes. Effecient?

The glass cage I saw had 2 intakes and 2 returns drilled within one box. I liked the look but was concerned that the water flow would be hindered once live rock and coral was added unless I added some type of piping to extend reach of returns. I was also concerned that I would weaken the tank bottom by putting 4 holes in a realitively small area. The glass co. I talked to about drilling the tank does not want to go that route! They prefer to drill the holes (both intake & return) at a minimum of 12 inches apart, (trying not to confuse!) What should be the amount of space between 2 overflow boxes drilled in center of a tank based on these dimensions? (72lx24wx32h). to give better circulation or is it just owner preference? What type of overflows have worked well for other tanks that are viewed from both sides? I'm gonna ask one step at a time! hope this makes sense!
 
I just finished going through this whole thread, WOW.

I was going to drill two 1" drain holes and two 3/4" return holes in the back of my 46gal bow front. But I would like to get better surface skimming, so I am now thinking of changing to a calfo style overflow.

Has anyone seen this type of overflow... http://www.nautilusreef.com/html/tank_mods.html

It has a much cleaner look, I mean there is nothing inside the tank.
Is this style as efficient as the calfo style that has been discussed in this tread?
 
On a 40L breeder frag tank. For an overflow it's great, can't see any fault with mine. Pardon the valve (for air flow/noise control) stuck on temporarily a year ago.:D
externaloverflow111106.jpg
 
That's what I was thinking of doing Yardboy, looks good.
What did you use to cut the slot in the tank?
I have a rotozip that I could use, just need the bit.
 
Those are some pretty clean holes for using a dremel, good job Yardboy. I am afraid if I don't use a straight edge or guide my slot will look like squiggly (for lack of a better word) mess.
 
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