Campaign to support LFS

[chrisstie]

I didn't want to further hijack a different thread so I'd just like to step on my soap box for a minute. I haven't been involved in ORCA this year - between school, job hunting, and a few issues inbetween, it just hasn't been in the cards but I've made many friends and hope to make many more through this particular forum.

I love the reef hobby. It is one thing I can say I am truly passionate about. I do realize, however, not everyone in the hobby feels the same way or is in it for the same reasons. There is one thing we all do share though, and that is our local fish stores. It doesn't matter which is your favorite, which is a sponsor, which gives the best deals. What I have to say I say for everyone.

I make this post to encourage every one here to consider the economy. It's bad now, until John Q. Public starts to feel we've hit rock bottom and can climb up it'll probably still get worse in the next few months. Politics and many other factors will probably influence this. In the meantime people are losing jobs, can't find work, the gas stations that sell gas for so much are forced to do so to be able to stay in business to continue to provide gas (thanks speculators! not.)

Since this is a community, both online and geographical, I am going to make a pledge. I encourage and welcome you to join me. If you don't that is okay, but I want to speak out to help support our local fish stores.

I pledge for the rest of the year to only buy from our local fish stores. When the economy is bad, I want them to stay in business. When the economy gets better, I want them to still be there to provide their individual, unique, and fantastic services that they do for us. I don't want to be stuck paying an online heavy item shipping fee because a store closed down and I have to buy a bucket of salt online. I want to show my loyalty to our local stores to support small businesses and feel good about myself knowing I am helping to put food on someone elses table while enjoying my hobby. I can walk into Target and no one will ever recognize me. Whether you like me or hate me I want to walk into your local fish store and feel like we know each other, that feeling is dying out. This is one of the few hobbies that sustains it.

I want anyone who feels the same as I do to join my pledge in supporting our local fish stores. It doesn't matter if you visit one or all, but these are tough times and people talk about sustainability. Most if not all offer some form of aquacultured fish or corals, but what about sustaining our LFS?

Hope I don't sound crazy but I see people losing jobs left and right and am extremely fortunate to not be in life or death need of one this very second. I realize, however, a lot of people are and I want to make a difference in their lives in the ways that I can and to me that means extending my feelings into my hobby as well.

 

[The_Browns]

Good speech Christie. But it's not just the LFS that are hurting, the common working people like me are also hurting and can't always afford the markup that LFS's put on products. Mainly Dry Goods. I always buy from LFS's about 2 times a month. I just bought $120 in 2 MH bulbs from WWCs. But people are going to be attracted to the best deals and what their budget can afford. You are asking for it to be us to keep LFS's in business, well LFS's also need to help themselves stay in business and not markup products so much. I have found that Livestock prices are pretty much the same online or local (not buying from a forum like RC because you good hella good deals) but Drygoods are way overpriced. I am not talking about garlic pellets or flake food, but skimmers, lighting, reactors, etc.

Also if you are pledging to save the LFS's by only spending your money there I have one question. Will you be buying from the ORCA auction this month?

I do encourage people to buy stuff from their LFS stores though. Me and the wife do on visits to Fish Stores even if its just frozen food. We probably spend about $200 a month at LFS's on average. Anyways I will continue to buy from LFS's but not everything I want can be because of the 100-300% markup on the products. My budget will not allow it.

 

[AJ69]

I'm with Mr Brown the LFS have a huge mark up,I like to support our stores though remember we all have a budget and if I see a way better price online with a 15 day warranty or any other given time you can count that I'll be jumping on it,on the other hand I like to buy/exchange with fellow reefers(coral propagation)

 

[chantweaver]

If you think LFS have that much mark up, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[slipondajimmy]

Hi chrisstie,

I understand your concern, but unfortunatly business is not always good and most business people know they could loose it all tomorrow. How many lfs or any store for that matter have dropped prices on everything because consumers are feeling the economic downturn? If anything they have raised prices to make a profit.

As I said in my post on the other thread I support LFS. I was at both SITC and Aquarium fanatics this week for various items. I will continue to support lfs in anyway I can.

BUT the economy is bad all around. I dont know anyone who is not feeling a pinch in their pockets. there are local people who are getting out of the hobby for various reasons or are starting frag tanks to support their hobby or supplement their income. In most cases their prices are much MUCH lower then lfs.

Should we not support them?

 

[skinnyjoe1976]

is agree with chrisstie 100%. it's simple business. lfs may see 10 people a day on average (depends on the store) and the online stores see hundereds. hince the mark-up. if you need something now and you get it cheaper and the pay the overnight charge for shipping then you almost pay the same price and still get it 12 hours later. i buy online sometimes if's it not available local. and when it comes to live goods then good luck. some are good and some are bad. one rule on buying a fish is that is it eating. how will you be able to tell if you buy online (unless you take the word of the online store). i jusy payed 52 dollars for a sedra impellor and i could get it online for 32 but i needed it now and i was on the weekend. i'm one of those hobbiest that have a very fixed budget. i get most of my stuff from helping other reefers and lfs with stuff. we already say bluereef close and they had some other issues imo but the sad part is that they were very friendly and there prices on some stuff was good. there will be no perfect store in this community since so many people have dirrerent opinions about things. again i agree to disagree.

 

[AJ69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12898623#post12898623 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chantweaver
If you think LFS have that much mark up, you are sadly mistaken.

Will you care to explain? 'cause I have seen BIG difference on prices(live goods/dry goods) and lately the O Town stores are on the high side,compare to some of the Tampa area.

 

[skinnyjoe1976]

from knowing a lfs owner and seeing the cost on stuff the average mark-up is 100% on most stuff. of course it goes up and down depending on the cost. one of the reasons you see different prices is due to the supplier and location. if you came over here to buy a car you pay 20% more for it due to the local and supply and demand. same will go over there with lfs. most lfs over here sell a single head of frogspawn for 90 bucks and over there i've seen them for 40. i know some lfs get there stuff from raley's and central pets and at cost i could supply them cheaper products buy buying online. it's convince. why does a gas station on 95 have gas for 4.00 a gallon and if you go into town it's .30 cents cheaper?

 

[The_Browns]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12898681#post12898681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skinnyjoe1976
and when it comes to live goods then good luck. some are good and some are bad. one rule on buying a fish is that is it eating. how will you be able to tell if you buy online (unless you take the word of the online store). .

I agree with this statement, I only buy livestock from local fish stores or other local reefers

 

[chantweaver]

Can't say why you are seeing higher prices in Otown then the bay area. One of the issues for most LFS just like any small business is having to deal with suppliers and space to stock. Sorry but this will be it from me on this subject.

 

[chrisstie]

My personal rule of thumb after some bad experiences, that may change in the future but only for now is, I don't buy from ORCA auctions. I have gotten some wonderful pieces from early on in my, can I say "career in the hobby?" but generally speaking there is too much risk involved for how I conduct my tank. NO offense meant for anyone participating in the auctions it is a personal choice and I'm not even a member this year. Going to sit it out. I have more fun chatting people up at the LFS when I go to visit.

In regards to markup, knowing wholesale costs, LFS markup is generally 30-50% (drygoods). You'd be surprised how little money brick and mortar stores make on drygoods. The only reason they are cheaper online is because large stores/online only stores can afford to buy in bulk and receive a huge discount. They then pass the savings onto the consumer in order to compete with the LFS. If a store's average markup is only the bare minimum of 30% and they do say, $1000 in a day then they are only making 300 profit which gets used up pretty quick on operating costs. If the store happens to have more, then you can figure the math for it. Its sad but true, but knowing this is what makes me want to support the local stores so they can support us. This is the same reason a lot of big lot stores can outcompete small businesses in many areas of consumption. Department stores versus small designers, grocery stores versus markets, etc.

If you feel it is within your ability to support the LFS as much as possible with a minimum from other places (it IS a tough time and good deals are hard to come by) then you will be doing your part. My goal is to stick just to our local guys and gals.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Chrisstie, I think this is a great idea. Unfortunately I can't pledge to fulfill that completely but I do do my part. Some things I can not find local, and some things I can. Those that I can I do buy local, 80% of my livestock comes from local shops, and about %90 of my hardware that I bought new came from LFS.

Not that this is what you are looking for, but many many of the dry goods I have bought have been pricematched by LFS's, which is a gesture I appreciate.

I think folks should try to do this, and often buying from an LFS means supporting your sponsors if you are an ORCA member.

 

[chrisstie]

If this post can even make a person think about maybe changing one purchase, then I will feel happy. It is a challenge, but I think I can plan and save in my budget carefully enough to do it 100%, but for some I think that finding a deal feels more important sometimes. If you can afford to, try thinking about where your purchases go.

At a time like this, if we can educate ourselves as best we can it will help with the economy.

Heck, did you know you can save gas by keeping your tires inflated and driving smoothly? I see a lot of um, less than careful drivers feeding their egos speeding around town, and then I giggle at their extra money spent on gas. Accelerating really fast just burns gas faster. I guess the people who do it are just uninformed or can afford to.

 

[davy182]

Help us help you. I don't think it is just supporting your local fish store that needs to be brought to attention but more so the relationship between the stores and hobbiest. With prices of gas going up and it being more costly to go anywhere, what are the stores doing for us to keep us going to their stores. I don't even hear of group buys from stores anymore. Yes I understand mark up very well but maybe one month have a group purchase on salt or some necessary product and pass the savings onto the hobbiest. Even though you aren't making much on that one group buy at least it hits your minimum order from a wholesaler so other products can be bought with that order.

 

[chrisstie]

The difficulty with group buys, I think, is that its very difficult to get people to commit to what they buy. It happens often in online group buys but an LFS group buy sounds great. Maybe they could do a down payment plan or a signup sheet with a reservation deposit.

It is tough for stores without much markup because at a certain point, with shipping, it becomes "not worth it" for some items so maybe theres a way to develop that idea further!

 

[davy182]

there is a fuel surcharge on ordering through wholesalers because they have their own trucks and normally have a route that they drive for deliveries anyway. I had my 500 pound acrylic order shipped from tampa for 100 dollers because I piggy backed my order with someone elses.

I know I always need salt. Most everyone can probably say the same. I would pay in advance, and I would probably promote it to everyone I know as well. Don't get me started on mark up now I have seen the markup on crabs/snails. Now there would be a good group deal right there.

 

[chrisstie]

livestock and drygoods are two very, very different categories when it comes to pricing.

 

[joshalicialtjt]

ya after working at a lfs once upon a time i saw that dry goods especially were not marked up but pennies on the dollar and after the cost of shipping and money saved after certain live species perished in shipping or soon after the lfs business is probably the hardest i have ever heard .

 

[BLUEHIPPOLOVER]

I AGREE WORLD WIDE CORALS ONLY FOR ME

 

[chrisstie]

Did anyone ever tell you bluehippolover that typing in all caps is the equivalent to screaming at the top of your lungs when you talk? ;p