can high nitrates be due to 0 phosphates?

[CTaylor]

Hi,

I have 20+ ppm nitrates right now, but 0 ppBillon (on hannah test) total phosphorous. I was about to dose prodibio to reduce the nitrate. But from I can tell from reading that may not work too well b/c I have 'no' phosphate. Though I can't find anything that directly says super low phosphate means it's hard to get NO3 to low levels.

So I also am waiting on a phosphate additive. I got this just to raise PO4 some. But maybe that is all I need to get my NO3 down? And perhaps, adding the prodibio or other nitrate reducers will just make my PO4 go even lower (I know there is some amount b/c I feed a fair amount daily, it's just not a detecable amount).

I'm going to add my prodiobio at one dose when I get it. As some of my SPS are stressed, and Im taking a chance it makes things better as opposed to worse -- I have a Birdsnest that may not be able to wait until I get the phosphate additive delivered next week :-/ So I need to do something.

 

[bertoni]

In theory, any nitrate reduction method that depends on net growth and export might become phosphorus-limited at some point. That in theory probably holds true for Prodibio. In practice, I think it's worth trying to see what happens. We don't have measurement tools that are precise and accurate enough for us to be sure about phosphorus-limited systems so easily. Dosing phosphate might be enough to add bio-mass export (via the skimmer, for example) to reduce the nitrate level in your system. That's hard to predict.

Nutrient exports such as denitrification don't depend on bio-mass export, so they are harder to predict. They can function with net zero phosphorus "consumption".

 

[Uncle99]

I don't think any tank has zero for phosphate, the Hanna checker + - factor likely means any test could be either zero or 0.04 which is fine.

20 ppm nitrate is just a bit high, I used Nopox (cause in Canada it's cheaper than vodka) to bring down nitrate to a consistent 5 ppm and phosphate never went lower than 0.05 ppm which is fine.

Carbon dosing works well in reduction but my experience does not reduce phosphate that much.

 

[CTaylor]

So,
My take away is I likely have some phosphate, which I though, just a very low level. And from what i udnerstand, a product like prodibio should still be able to reduce nitrate because it works biologically, so I should get nitrate reduction using that (assuming it's a viable product) with readable PO4 or not.

I added it last night, and no change yet. I'm assuming it takes some time. I just think it's odd that the little vial is suposed to lower my phoshpate, but I have large boulders of rock in my tank that should house a lot of NO3 reducers as is.

I'm going to make this a new thread b/c it's branched out enough with my current question about it..
TY!!!

 

[bertoni]

You're welcome. Good luck! We'll see whether Prodibio works in your system.

 

[Uncle99]

So,
My take away is I likely have some phosphate, which I though, just a very low level. And from what i udnerstand, a product like prodibio should still be able to reduce nitrate because it works biologically, so I should get nitrate reduction using that (assuming it's a viable product) with readable PO4 or not.

I added it last night, and no change yet. I'm assuming it takes some time. I just think it's odd that the little vial is suposed to lower my phoshpate, but I have large boulders of rock in my tank that should house a lot of NO3 reducers as is.

I'm going to make this a new thread b/c it's branched out enough with my current question about it..
TY!!!

Yup, that's correct IMO.
I am not familiar with your nitrate reducing product.
It took me 6 months of daily carbon dosing of Nopox to go from 50ppm to 5ppm.
Phosphate went from 0.3to .1-.15 and its been that way for years now.
From time to time, I'll use a GFO for a week or two.

 

[CTaylor]

I wish there was an article or something that stated how biodigest worked. I'm going to guess it just takes some time to populate the tank with it's bacteria. But then why is that better than what I have (?) Is it a different bacteria than in my tank, etc. I'm guessing both are correct. I've seen reviews, though where the ammonia levels have dropped from 1ppm to 0 overnight. I'm going to guess it takes a few more days of exponential growth (assuming that's the rate the bacteria divide) to get to the point of being able to cut 20-30 ppm down to 5-10. Then why do I need to dose again to keep it there? The bacteria have a built in timer? lol

A write up by someone would be very interesting to me, unless it's out there and I can't find it

 

[Uncle99]

I continue to carbon dose because if I do not, my nitrate will slowly rise.
With a 15% weekly water change + 10ml day Nopox, I hold my nitrates stable at 5ppm

Over time, and potentially faster which a beneficial bacteria strain seed, populations of bacteria will build to a point in which those bacteria can process incoming nitrate load., without rising or falling.

When you increase loads, fish and food, the bacteria population needs to grow proportionality to take on the higher demand of processing thru the Nitrogen cycle. This I why I carbon dose, I let the nitrate level control the dose,

I have not added any new fish in over a year so my import/export is in virtual balance

For corals, the stability is more important provided levels stay within generally accepted levels.

I rather have a consistent 10 ppm nitrate level than one that fluctuates.
I have a very hard time with reducing phosphate, but I can easily keep it at .1, and my corals grow and show good colours,

Any product which claims significant reduction in one day should be avoided, the drop is too faster for corals......slow.....small changes are what actually works.

Remember..... corals hate change....even worse.... fast change.

Maybe some of this helos,,,,, good luck

 

[bertoni]

We don't know what's in Prodibio, so it's hard to be sure about what it's going to do. In addition to bacteria, it might have some organic carbon.

 

[CTaylor]

the product makes no claims on speed or lack thereof. I"m ttrying not to dose carbon until I have to. I'll try the NO3 brick first (after getting results from the prodibio) << which should provide more area to keep NO3 consitently lower levels. Hopefully. I also just changed my GAC out so that might be a source of carbon, even if it's a slight amount. And also a touch of PO4, as my levels went from 0 to 7 ppB after the wagter change and GAC change. My salt water mix tests at 7 ppBillion. I changed 25% of the water. Still 7 ppB is super low.

My nitrates seem to have decreased over the past two days. I'm taking pics of the nitrate color from the salifert test so I have it to compare over time. My stressed acro and Bnest looks less so now. I'm getting more PE from acros that hardly hhad any before.

Recetnly I did have a gigantic Mex turbo die, though I got out most of the remains. I may have found the shell of another recently dead medium sized one.. And a sickly little bartlett anthias is no whwere. So it seems I had three deaths in a short time frame. That could maybe be my NO3 spike???. I dont know.

I also do not know if prodibio has any Carbon. It's a tiny ampuole, maybe 1 cc. So I cant see how it can contain the bacteria and whatever supports the bacteria along with a fair amount of carbon.

And from what was said previously and what my tank may seem to agree with is that I do not need more phosphate to get my NO3 lower.

But anyhow, if things keep going the direction they turned in the last day or so I'll be happy again lol