Cant keep nitrates down

Crazyfingerz

New member
I have a 25 gal tank with a 10 gal sump setup. i use tap water but only because i tested it before i use it and it read 0 nitrates. my nitrites are at 0 ammonia at 0 but may fluctuate. ph between 8.2-8.4.
I have 2 clowns, 2 chromis, 1 yellow tail damsel, 6 snails, 1 starfish, 1 feather duster and a zoathid colony.

I have 2 hang on the back filters about a combined 60 gal rating and a DIY protein skimmer and about 16lbs live rock and 16 lbs dry rock. please help me lower my nitrates so i can get more corals
 
What are your nitrates at now? How much/often are you feeding?

How often do you clean your hob filters? They should be cleaned once a week to keep nitrates from building up in there. Your tap water has a lot worse things in it than nitrates. You should consider buying rodi from a lfs.
 
I have a 20 gallon that I do 10% water changes on and clean the filter once a week and have never had any nitrate problems. But I only have one fish, so..
 
Just to put some polish on the complaints regarding tap water. We don't avoid it due to nitrates. Of the things we test it's chlorine and phosphate that we want to avoid - and in some cases ammonia.

Chlorine is very toxic to the life in your tank. If you aren't using something like AmQuel to neutralize the chlorine, that alone could be causing your problem by killing off life in your LR and driving nitrates up. Eventually it will kill the fish anyway so your nitrates become a bit of a non-issue. Using RO/DI fixes those things up.

Phosphate will cause you no end of headaches because algae will grow wild. Especially nuisance algae - the kind that can have you pulling your rocks out and scurbbing them with a brush. Using RO/DI fixes this too.

The other things, which we don't specifically test for are dissolved solids (TDS). Depending on what you have in your tap water, they could do either of the above, both and probably some other things you only see in sci-fi movies. You can take a sample to your LFS and they can test this with a TDS meter for you.

If you aren't going to switch to RO/DI then I'd suggest running both carbon and GFO. You probably already have carbon going - GFO is easy too. You don't need a big fancy reactor for a small tank like that, although you do have the sump so you could go with something small ... or even just a media bag. That will handle your phosphate at least.

Regarding your nitrates - you'll need to report back on what they are as requested by HatTrick of course, but it would also be good to know how long the tank has been running. What kind of substrate do you have? Are any of those fish new additions? By the way - that seems like a lot of fish for a 25g. You might try posting your stock list here and see what kind of feedback you get - it would help rule that out at least.

How does your maintenance routine compare to HatTrick's?
 
i clean my tank once a week and do a 10 percent water change. my tank has been running for up to 2 months. and my nitrates are at 20ppm. i normally just rinse out the media in the filter. but i guess i have to wash out the entire filter. but anyhow i am going to get some ocean water tomorrow so hopefully i could correct some issues concerning my water.
 
What do you mean by ocean water? I dont think I would use water from the ocean.

If you were to do this, Id say go at least a half mile off shore? Im not sure though maybe someone else could help
 
i clean my tank once a week and do a 10 percent water change. my tank has been running for up to 2 months. and my nitrates are at 20ppm. i normally just rinse out the media in the filter. but i guess i have to wash out the entire filter. but anyhow i am going to get some ocean water tomorrow so hopefully i could correct some issues concerning my water.

10% of water change weekly is quite insignificant given your heavy load. i would suggest 20% weekly changes instead.
 
i clean my tank once a week and do a 10 percent water change. my tank has been running for up to 2 months. and my nitrates are at 20ppm. i normally just rinse out the media in the filter. but i guess i have to wash out the entire filter. but anyhow i am going to get some ocean water tomorrow so hopefully i could correct some issues concerning my water.

Be sure to check the salinity if you go with ocean water. It's pretty uncommon to do that but I'm sure I've read at least one thread in the past of someone having tried. In your best case scenario it won't address your nitrate issue though because wherever the water comes from, it shouldn't have nitrates present.

Ok - so 5 fish in a 25g tank that is 2 months old - that's your problem in a nutshell. Given that most tanks take a month or more to cycle (longer if it's not all LR), that means you either added fish to a tank that wasn't cycled, or you added 5 fish in the space of one month - either way it's a severe case of rushing that your bacteria could never hope to keep up with. Now, how to fix it? (if you're wondering, your tank should be between 4 and 8 months old before it has that many fish. 4-8 weeks between fish (hopefully to QT), and allowing for a month of cycling but assuming your clowns and damsels were added as pairs)

You mentioned doing a 10% water change weekly - so the most you would hope to be removing from the tank on a weekly basis is 2ppm. That means your tank only has to produce 2ppm weekly to keep you at your 20ppm mark - that's pretty easy given how many fish you have. Add to that the fact that your tank is only 2 months old and I'd say you are very lucky to be doing so well.

Except, re-reading your original post I see you mention that your ammonia is fluctuating (I originally thought you meant pH, which would be normal). This is a very bad thing as it's toxic to everything in the tank. I suggest getting an ammonia badge (cheap) and stick it in the tank so you can keep an eye on it. If you see ammonia - do a water change immediately. And that's going to be your long term solution as well.

Try is moving to a 20% weekly water change - you can definitely expect to be changing more than the baseline norm when you have a lot of fish in a small space. You could consider 30% if necessary. You definitely do not want to add anything to that tank for several months.

Regarding the filter, you mentioned rinsing the media. There are probably two types of filters at work here - one with carbon and one that houses your beneficial bacteria (ex. bio-wheel or ceramic discs, plugs etc). Normally you could toss the later since you have live rock - but your tank is so new and crowded that I'd suggest that if you have it, keep it for now - and if you rinse it - do it in salt water. You can't afford to kill off the good bacteria right now. If you are rinsing your carbon filters - stop - just toss them and replace them until you see your numbers coming down - then you can potentially work your way back to a cheaper schedule.

So yea, we say it all the time, rushing is bad. But it's already done so just focus on being aggressive about your filtration and upping the volume of your water changes. And keep a close eye on feeding of course.

By the way - you didn't say - have you been treating your tap water?
And post pics! We never get enough pics :sad1:


**edit** doh - sandwi beat me to the WC punch while I as writing my novel - sorry sandwi ;)
 
What do you mean by ocean water? I dont think I would use water from the ocean.

If you were to do this, Id say go at least a half mile off shore? Im not sure though maybe someone else could help

Ocean water is the best you can get. Use it all the time. I don't collect from polluted beaches however.
 
Zero ammonia, zero nitrites and a reasonable amount of nitrates is a finished cycle if you are still putting food in, but going from 20ppm nitrates to zero in a single night without a water change (or even with) is technically a miracle. Or possibly a faulty test at one end or the other.

I'd keep a close eye on it. The only way to go from 20ppm to 0ppm that fast is to do a 100% water change - and even then, you would probably release some of the trapped nitrates in the substrate giving you reading above 0. At any rate - best of luck.
 
dont just rinse out the media, switch it out. dirty media causes excess nitrates. carbon and gfo should be switched once a month or so, filter pads should be switched at least once a month, depending on how gross they get in the alotted time. HOB filters work just fine, as i had an emperor 400 on my 55g with a HOB skimmer. if i stayed on top of water changes, they would never get over 5 with a max of 9 fish in it. since you are using 2 HOB filters, ill give you an idea as to what i did with my emperor 400. one side was bags of carbon and gfo, the other side had a 2-3" sand bed with a buncha rock rubble in it. i switched the carbon and gfo once a month, and left the other side alone for 3 years. to give you an idea of how well this worked, nitrates and phosphates were always low (nitrates always under 5) considering i did my weekly 5-7g waterchange, i had to clean out the impeller one day and when i was working on the filter i noticed absolutely no smell coming from it, even the gross dsb side! i highly recommend you try that in one of your HOB filters, and make your other one chock-full-o-carbon/gfo. everyone ive recommended it to have noticed lower nitrates. well, that and a bit more flow if its necessary.

hope this helps!

edit: you should probably get rid of your damsels, they will get destructive eventually in there... not to mention that is a bit too many fish for that new and small of a tank
 
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