CBB and Flukes

[Mental1]

So I bought a CBB and put him in a tank in the basement that was still a part of my overall system. No need to point out that this was stupid. Anyway, it became clear he had a serious case of flukes. I gave him a FW dip and tons fell off. 5 Days later I gave him another FW and more came off. Then 5 days later I treated my whole system with prozipro. Then I took the first video because I felt his color was funny. Someone pointed out that he was twitching meaning still suffering with flukes so that day I treated the whole system. Mind you the system is 400g so 50% water changes are out of the question. Then five days later I did a 30g water change and treated again. So the second video is today, his color is a lot better, but he's still twitching. It's been 8 days of treatment so far. At the end of the second video you can see the suds from the prozipro in one of my tanks! I think I need to do a 3rd treatment but I can't put my whole system through another treatment. I need to do some big water changes and that will take time. Suggestions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io6njXXuDJU&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RtdH1Uj960&feature=youtu.be

 

[b0bab0ey]

Unfortunately, since Flukes are now in your DT, you only have two viable options:

1. Continue treating with Prazi (I dose at 5-day intervals) until your fish aren't showing any more symptoms of Flukes. Normally, two doses does it, but I once had to treat a fish 5 times!

2. Remove all your fish, treat them with Prazi in a QT and let your DT sit fallow for 9-10 weeks. (This option probably isn't sounding too good to you.)

By any chance, are you still running your skimmer while treating with Prazi? I think I remember reading that a skimmer will "skim" the medication out of the water. So, you want to have it turned off while treating... but maybe use it in-between doses in lieu of a WC.

 

[Mental1]

I turned off the skimmer and stopped carbon and gfo. What's worrying me is that I cannot do a big enough water change. Maybe I can do a water change and do carbon and the skimmer for a couple of days and then dose again. Will I lose ground? None of the other fish were showing terrible symptoms before I treated and now all are fine. It's just the continuous twitching of the CBB that worries me. The other option is to just put the butterfly in the QT and keep treating him. He's eating so that's not a problem but he's very comfortable in his tank. There's no way I can remove all of the fish. I only have a 30g QT.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I turned off the skimmer and stopped carbon and gfo. What's worrying me is that I cannot do a big enough water change. Maybe I can do a water change and do carbon and the skimmer for a couple of days and then dose again. Will I lose ground? None of the other fish were showing terrible symptoms before I treated and now all are fine. It's just the continuous twitching of the CBB that worries me. The other option is to just put the butterfly in the QT and keep treating him. He's eating so that's not a problem but he's very comfortable in his tank. There's no way I can remove all of the fish. I only have a 30g QT.

The point of the WC is to remove any decaying organic matter (i.e. dead flukes). Unless you have it jammed pack full of fish, I would think you'd have some wiggle room in a 400g aquarium. That's a lot of water on your side. I'm not saying don't do a WC, but don't stress if you can't do one that's 50%. Just do as much as you can. Also, I'm assuming you have a big *** protein skimmer in a tank that size and one of those will remove decaying organic matter too. So, if I were you, I'd dose Prazi, wait 72 hours and then turn my skimmer back on. (I think Prazi only remains active for 72 hours anyway.) Wait 2-3 more days, do your WC and then hit it with Prazi again. Rinse and repeat this method until all fish stop showing symptoms. Just putting the CBB in QT won't help all your other fish. If he still has it, then it's still in the water column and eventually all your fish will have it.

 

[Mental1]

Yea -- some of my corals started looking unhappy last night so tried turning the skimmer on without a top. Pulled out so much water that I had to turn it off. I have water mixing so hopefully the dilution of the water should help. You just can't believe the suds everywhere. The level of prozi in the water is just too high. I'm sure the skimmer -- which I have turned way down -- will pull a bunch more out. It pulled out about 30 to 40 gallons in less than an hour. Yikes! Yes -- it's a big skimmer -- it's a MRC Reeflo -- awesome skimmer. The CBB was looking better this morning - less twitching but still doing it. I also filled up both sides of my Carbon/GFO reactor with carbon. I am hoping I can get the skimmer turned back on after I get the new water in this morning. I could not add more prozipro until after I got the water changed up. I don't know if you watched the second video but at the end I tried to show all of the suds -- about six inches deep in the 75g tank that has the return pump for the water coming back upstairs to the 2 DTs.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Yea -- some of my corals started looking unhappy last night so tried turning the skimmer on without a top. Pulled out so much water that I had to turn it off. I have water mixing so hopefully the dilution of the water should help. You just can't believe the suds everywhere. The level of prozi in the water is just too high. I'm sure the skimmer -- which I have turned way down -- will pull a bunch more out. It pulled out about 30 to 40 gallons in less than an hour. Yikes! Yes -- it's a big skimmer -- it's a MRC Reeflo -- awesome skimmer. The CBB was looking better this morning - less twitching but still doing it. I also filled up both sides of my Carbon/GFO reactor with carbon. I am hoping I can get the skimmer turned back on after I get the new water in this morning. I could not add more prozipro until after I got the water changed up. I don't know if you watched the second video but at the end I tried to show all of the suds -- about six inches deep in the 75g tank that has the return pump for the water coming back upstairs to the 2 DTs.

Probably best to just concentrate on getting all the Prazi out for now. Once your corals start looking better and all the suds go away, I'd re-treat. Flukes aren't like Brook or Velvet; It's more of a slow killer. So you've probably got some time on your side. Just don't wait too long.

 

[Mental1]

Yea-- I was thinking of doing another fw dip because he is twitching like crazy. I did not do another dose last night because I was not going to be home -- bit of a crazy week. When I get home today perhaps I will do the freshwater dip and dose prozi again. I am a little bit bummed that the twitching is still so bad and it has not killed the flatworms in my display. I was hoping for at least that bonus. Just my luck I will have a resistant form of both flukes and flatworms. At least his color is better, he's starting to put on a little weight, and he eats like a pig.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Yea-- I was thinking of doing another fw dip because he is twitching like crazy. I did not do another dose last night because I was not going to be home -- bit of a crazy week. When I get home today perhaps I will do the freshwater dip and dose prozi again. I am a little bit bummed that the twitching is still so bad and it has not killed the flatworms in my display. I was hoping for at least that bonus. Just my luck I will have a resistant form of both flukes and flatworms. At least his color is better, he's starting to put on a little weight, and he eats like a pig.

F/w dip will buy you more time (with that particular fish).

One quick thought: Are you sure you're dosing properly? It's one teaspoon per 20 gallons. You said your system is 400 gallons. Does that also include the water in your sump? Do you shake the bottle really well before dosing? It's just that if the Prazi is not killing at least some of your flatworms, something must be wrong somewhere.

 

[Mental1]

What I did was go to each tank and put in 1 tsp for each 20g so the 180 got 9 tsp, the 55 got 3, the 75 got 4tsp etc etc. Every tank in the system was dosed individually. No skimmer, no carbon, no gfo -- I have got the algae to prove it!!! I did shake the bottle - I did everything. The first time I tried to estimate for displacement the second time I said screw that and went to town. I'm back home but thought I would give everyone the rest of the day and get the water cleaned up a bit more before I start again.

 

[b0bab0ey]

What I did was go to each tank and put in 1 tsp for each 20g so the 180 got 9 tsp, the 55 got 3, the 75 got 4tsp etc etc. Every tank in the system was dosed individually. No skimmer, no carbon, no gfo -- I have got the algae to prove it!!! I did shake the bottle - I did everything. The first time I tried to estimate for displacement the second time I said screw that and went to town. I'm back home but thought I would give everyone the rest of the day and get the water cleaned up a bit more before I start again.

I would try a different bottle next go around. Just in case...

 

[Mental1]

Not possible today - I live in the woods. But I plan on doing 2 more rounds so I need more to do it a second time.

 

[Mental1]

Just did the next round. A lot of unhappy corals. Sigh. So avoidable. I've been doing this long enough to know better than to make such a dumba$$ rookie move.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Just did the next round. A lot of unhappy corals. Sigh. So avoidable. I've been doing this long enough to know better than to make such a dumba$$ rookie move.

Don't beat yourself up too much over it. I still make stupid mistakes on an almost daily basis. (Just ask my wife!)

Good luck!

 

[Mental1]

Thanks! The softies seem to be the most miserable. The CBB is suddenly very skittish. Still twitching but not nearly as bad. Flatworms are still alive. I'm going to give it 3 days, do a water change, carbon and skimmer for 24 hours and treat again. Then I give up if this doesn't work.

 

[Mental1]

Well, had a chat with a LFS owner and buddy and we came to the conclusion that there must be something wrong with the prozipro that I have. When I told him what I had done, he was surprised that I still had flatworms that are alive. So I bought another big bottle. Monday morning will be three days and I think I will carbon and protein skimmer for 24 hours and treat with the new bottle.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Well, had a chat with a LFS owner and buddy and we came to the conclusion that there must be something wrong with the prozipro that I have. When I told him what I had done, he was surprised that I still had flatworms that are alive. So I bought another big bottle. Monday morning will be three days and I think I will carbon and protein skimmer for 24 hours and treat with the new bottle.

Good call on trying another bottle. When you said you still had flatworms that are alive, I figured something was wrong with the bottle you are using. Good luck!

 

[Preston7]

I would've made the LFS that sold you a fluke infested fish give you a big bottle of prazi at a minimum!

Hopefully you've found the issue and can get the tank back on the right path. Good luck and don't give up!

 

[Mental1]

Thanks! Skimmer and carbon are running over night, water getting ready for a water change tomorrow morning, and then dose again with the new bottle. I am noticing that the FW are changing their behavior so I do not think they are unaffected. As for the LFS who I bought the CBB from, I guess it really is my lapse in judgement in adding him to my whole system versus the QT. Especially since if you buy a CBB, it is rare that they don't have flukes. My concern is if all of these collection systems and LFS's are using prozi are we creating super flukes? Resistant to prozi?

 

[Mental1]

I am unsure what to do. My corals are very unhappy -- well some of them. I am concerned about doing another dose. The CBB does not seem to twitch when I'm watching him but he doesn't see me. Then when he sees me he goes nuts because he really likes the blackworms and he starts swimming back and forth and twitching like crazy. Have you ever seen them twitch and not have flukes?

 

[b0bab0ey]

I am unsure what to do. My corals are very unhappy -- well some of them. I am concerned about doing another dose. The CBB does not seem to twitch when I'm watching him but he doesn't see me. Then when he sees me he goes nuts because he really likes the blackworms and he starts swimming back and forth and twitching like crazy. Have you ever seen them twitch and not have flukes?

Twitching can be a symptom of something other than Flukes... Crypto, Lympho (I owned a fish that had Lympho growing inside of his gills and would twitch like crazy). Do you see any stringy white poo coming out of the CBB? That's a sure sign of Flukes.

You said in your initial post that you did a "FW dip and tons fell off". Maybe do another FW dip to see if he still has Flukes? Do any of your other fish show symptoms? If not, I would QT the CBB to a separate tank and deal with treating him in there. Instead of continuing to dose your DT with Prazi.