HouseDJSTL
Premium Member
So I see all these sumps with nice big balls of cheato and mine just floats to the top and spreads out in a layer about 3/4-1" thick! What gives!?!?
Cheato help!
- Thread starter HouseDJSTL
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HouseDJSTL
Premium Member
I have mine setup that flow is to a minimum through my sump. I do have a powerhead in my fuge to keep things moving and hopes that the cheato would begin to "spin".
Scubareefman
New member
Maybe its your bio-load and other filtration pulling out what it needs to flourish.
Schplitter
New member
I thought the same thing in mine but when testing I discovered N03 to be 10-12, P04 @ 0.08 so it should grow. This was exactly two weeks ago.
My 1st problem was my drain from the tank dropping into the cheato grow out and with it bringing bubbles. Those bubbles would attach to the cheato and make it float.
To fix this issue I added a filter sock, shook the bubbles out of the cheato and it sank down to the bottom. It grew slightly better but not like I though it should grow with that much P04 in the water column. I gave it one week but I was not happy. I forgot to take a picture at that time.
I had two led pendant lights over the cheato in the correct light spectrum and I thought that would be plenty as the cheating would float and directly under the lights it would turn yellow/brown and die from burn but it seems I was wrong. To test this I had two Pharos LED clusters which were removed from my tank when I got a killer deal on some Radion LED's. I thought why not add them to the side of the sump shining through the glass to see what will happen.
BOOM! The cheato filled up the entire cheato grow out chamber (12x24x21") in one week. Completely thick and full top to bottom and side to side. 5 gallon bucket full in one week. I'm pulling it out today to take to the LFS for store credit
I will report back with my P04 and N03 readings today. My hope is that they will be lower. Fingers crossed!
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kegogut
Active member
Ive gotta nice ball of chaeto in my sump but it doesnt tumble like id like it to though. Ive been thinking about getting a 40b for a fuge so I can tumble.
I did buy a bulb specifically for chaeto growth and its working great. You can actually see the strands of chaeto growing towards the light.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GNWK2XO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I did buy a bulb specifically for chaeto growth and its working great. You can actually see the strands of chaeto growing towards the light.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GNWK2XO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Schplitter
New member
Here are the results after this massive growth for 7 days exactly:
N03 is 0.0.
I tested twice.
This is a bit scary since it was 12 last week. I also need to add a disclaimer. I did add 500ml of biopellets 6 days ago to my biopellets reactor however I have never seen biopellets work this fast so I would say this is mostly due to the cheato growing like crazy.
The P04 is somewhere between 0.04 and 0.08. I would call it 0.06.
Slight improvement from the steady 0.08 reading I have been getting for months now. I'll take it!
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N03 is 0.0.
I tested twice.
This is a bit scary since it was 12 last week. I also need to add a disclaimer. I did add 500ml of biopellets 6 days ago to my biopellets reactor however I have never seen biopellets work this fast so I would say this is mostly due to the cheato growing like crazy.
The P04 is somewhere between 0.04 and 0.08. I would call it 0.06.
Slight improvement from the steady 0.08 reading I have been getting for months now. I'll take it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tigé21v
Active member
I had luck using a maxi jet 1200 with a DIY'ed spray bar tumbling it. But it only worked while the ball was small. I had it in a 40 breeder with absolutely nothing else in it. Once it reached about the size of a small bowling ball, individual strands would manage to find something to get snagged on to and the tumbling would stop. Usually was some part of the powerhead/ spray bar, or the water return to the tank. That was when it was growing under the old T5 lights. When I switched to a Viparspectra 300 watt LED grow light
https://www.amazon.com/VIPARSPECTRA...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RA4X99JQB2JJA9A55M38
all tumbling stopped. It produced so many fine bubbles on the strands of chaeto (oxygen, I guess?) that the ball floated to the top and stayed there from then on out. Growth also increased through the roof. I think I read somewhere that it is only actively growing (or maybe it was that any truly beneficial photosynthesis was taking place) in the top couple of inches, and only for the first four hours IIRC. My chaeto started from one single strand about 6" long that came in a bag with a CUC I mail ordered. That single strand grew to the point where the 40 breeder was packed.
After the initial " let's see just how much chaeto a 40 breeder can hold", I thinned it way out to the point where it covered the entire surface, but was only about 3-4" thick. After the weekly harvest, I'd spread it out evenly on the surface, and take a pair of scissors and snip the heck out of what was left in the fuge. Not sure how much it helped, but I figured why not.
Have you dosed any sort of bacterial supplement? I dosed Vibrant twice a week, each time at the weekly recommended dose (so double dosed), to get rid of bryopsis and other nuisance algae. Tried it for almost three months. I would say somewhere around the second week, the chaeto stopped growing. Went from throwing out two or more gallons weekly to nothing. By the third week of dosing, the chaeto was dying. Figured it was releasing a lot of nutrients back into the tank, so I pulled out what was left the fourth week and tossed it. (BTW, absolutely no effect on either the bryopsis or other algae. Only wiped out the chaeto. Fluconazole spelled the demise for the bryopsis.)
Have to say I miss that stuff. It did wonders for keeping my ph levels up. 8.2 was a bad day.
I've thought about getting either a 2x4, 3x6, or 4x8 hydroponic grow table/flood tray for chaeto. It'd be in the basement, so I could enclose it and find the optimum light cycle to maximize growth and keep my ph stable. Who knows- if you had enough of the stuff, one may be able to get away from a skimmer?
Schplitter
New member
I read the same thing somewhere where they mentioned the growth at the very top is the only beneficial thing. I think this is due to the lighting not penetrating. How they decided that was the only beneficial growth never made any sense to me. If it grows and absorbs the bad stuff then who cares where it grows. In my case most of the growth was down and out so clearly it absorbs the bad stuff no matter how it grows. That statement never made much sense to me. I think lighting it from all possible angles is the solution to make the stuff grow. Same thing as tumbling it but actualy achievable with large growth in the scale we need to make a difference.
I could not agree more with you last statement:
"if you had enough of the stuff, one may be able to get away from a skimmer."
I have seen systems with those 300 gallon Horse trough full of cheato. They seemed to do well. I guess the questions are: What's more energy efficient? Does a skimmer take out the same or different elements as the cheato is. One of us has to be brave enough to shut the skimmer off and find out :beer:
Tigé21v
Active member
IIRC, the article(s) claim that the fun is happening in the top couple of inches receiving the light. I kind of figure it is growing reverse of how we think of most things, growing at the top and pushing the older growth down. Even if the older growth is no longer growing, as long as it isn't dying, it still has the nutrients it used to grow bound up in it.
I've often wondered if such a massive amount of chaeto would be like what seems to be the case all too often, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. If the chaeto was growing at such breakneck speeds, could/would it grow at such a pace that it would strip the water column of nutrients to the point of making the corals suffer? Seems like it would be growing at an exponential, not linear, rate. So almost overnight you could go from "ideal" NO3/PO4 levels to ULNS. And I don't think it would first be visible in the chaeto growth slowing, it would show as coral health taking a turn for the worst. Almost like one would have to test daily to make sure the chaeto doesn't overdo its job. And I wonder if such a large amount, while absorbing loads of nutrients, would also be releasing something at the same time that could be detrimental to coral growth. Seems as if a lot of organisms we keep release some sort of defensive mechanism in an effort to thwart off competition.
Honestly, I had not even though of it from an "Energy Efficiency" standpoint. Nice angle. I'm not familiar with the LED fixture you're now using on the side of your sump, or the energy it uses. I know the LED fixture I'm using over the 40 breeder is 300 watts. I bet I would need a few more of those if I were to set up a much larger chaeto system. Definitely way more energy than an average skimmer would be using.
That all said, it'd be cool to have filtration/ nutrient reduction handled by a giant wad of chaeto. Maybe have the return water from the chaeto tub flow through a labyrinth of living sponges to grab the bacteria out of the water...
A la Steve Tyree, I guess, LOL
(Did I just set the hobby back fifteen years???!):facepalm::deadhorse:
kegogut
Active member
Since Ive put the new bulb over the chaeto , the growth has exploded for me. I do take my ball and turn it about once a week but Ive definitely notice a huge difference in growth rate since adding the new bulb. Its a 12 watt LED bulb from amazon. If you did do a large fuge you could use maybe four of these to cover 4-5 ft x 2 ft easy.
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HouseDJSTL
Premium Member
What kind of bulb are you using??
Schplitter
New member
I just took a 2nd bucket of the stuff to the store.
2 15W LED pendants in a he 3K color range and 2 Pharos LED fixtures (90w each max) on the side of the sump.
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HouseDJSTL
Premium Member
Have any cheato to spare??
Schplitter
New member
I trimmed it pretty well. I can hook you up with a quart ziploc bag now or if you want more then give me a week or so.
Tigé21v
Active member
Have you tested again since the last test results you posted? With that kind of growth, I'd hope there would be a difference. Have you noticed any changes in you display?
I wonder if a DIY'ed panel of the cheapo LED strips for the sides of the fuge would yield similar results. I have the "big" light hanging over mine. Pretty much opposite of your setup.
Schplitter
New member
I will test tomorrow to keep it consistent. But I can tell you that I have not cleaned my glass in 5 days and it still looks clean. Usually I would have to do it every 3 days. I also noticed that my skimmate production is very low so I adjusted the gate valve a little last night. Usually I would get 1.5 liters of nasty, dark skimmate every 7 days. I also noticed my Alk drop from 9.50 to 7.0. in two days. I bumped up the effluent rate from the CA reactor.
I'm not sure what the wattage is on those things. I have seen round reactors with something like those around them specifically for Cheato or algae growth. They may work. The last batch of Cheato I pulled had burn marks from the Pharos where the LED's were close to the Cheato so I know these are very strong. 90 Watts divided by 18 LED's on each fixture comes to 5 watts per LED. Maybe look for something in that neighborhood. Keep in mind that I'm covering a 24X21X12 area with these two and have the other two pendants above also. Those are 15 watts per pendant. Adjust to fit your needs.
The only reason I have the Pharos on the side is because I didn't want to take the other lights down and have to figure out how to hang the Pharos. If it didn't work I would have to go back to what I had. It was simply the quickest way to see if this will make a difference. Needless to say I'll keep them there for now. Down the road I may change it up to where I get rid of the two pendants above the cheato and replace them with one of the Pharos while the other stays on the side of the sump.
I will report back tomorrow evening with the results from the latest tests.
