Check this out...i have dinoflagellates

Serioussnaps

Serioussnaps

New member
After moving my tank and letting it settle for 5 weeks I noticed a brown algae like growth which was unexplainable due NO3 being 0 and P04 being 0....i have great export...weekly 15% WC's, ASM G3 on a 55g, a refugium with chaeto growing very well, unbelievable amounts of flow etc..etc...etc...my feeding is very light and i use RO/DI...

I suspected i had silicates, knew it wasnt cyano or any common algae i have seen before so i researched.....

It started as a slight brown algae, that grew rust colored and formed air bubles in it and also started to form blood colored strings off of it...disgusting...anyways i basted it and toothbrushed it off the rock and the back wall daily only to see it come back with a vengeance...kept doing wc's and testing all results 0 and it kept coming....

did research today....undoubtedly DINOFLAGELLATES

WHAT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THESE? WHAT DID YOU DO TO ERADICATE THEM? ANYONE ELSE GO THROUGHT THIS...I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM

I am sure it is due to the tank move and some silicates in the water.....

Here is my plan: lights off for 3 days(they need light to live), no feeding of the fish......keep everything like skimmer cranked up....lots of carbon and polyfilters.....and i will begin dosing kalk again this week to keep the ph high and precipitate any phosphates(i think test kits for phosphates are highly inaccurate and hard to read)
by starving them of a photoperiod(there are no corals in the tank yet i sold all my others off prior to move and start an Acro tank)and with great exportation i think they will die off with no ill effects on the system(definitely not on my fish)

I also am ordering ROWA this week as a safety net even though i am testing out at 0's.

I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INPUT ON THIS SUBJECT FROM YOU IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING OR EVER DEALT WITH DINO'S

a big bummer after spending a couple grand getting the tank right for SPS and now this!
 
the bubbles and strings are cyano on top of the diatoms.

its normal it will pass, do not cut lighting and try and fight it. do not stress livestock. it will pass its a normal algea cycle

diatoms need light to grow thats it, [not a nutrient issue]
 
...just do everything your doing,carbon, polyfilters, rowa etc... but leave the lights off for a longer period of time...I've been battling them for over six months now because I can't shut down the lights for more than a few days at a time. I have a full tank of corals and they need light as well as the fuge. I still have them, but they are under control to the point where after I blow/siphon/brush it off the rockwork it will take a few days before it appears again and not nearly as bad as it was six months ago. I lost alot of my snails and some corals...good luck!
 
mike ny,,, if you lost snails and corals you had/have other issues. livestock feeds on diatoms [mine is]
 
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i have read that dinos can kill corals...fish....and particular anything that eat them in the whole process....reports of tangs dying from grazing it...

luckily nothing has died from eating it....and i dont have corals in the tank yet....so i am cutting the lights(leaving fuge on 24/7) and it just cant live without light....along with the export i hope it works

in theory if it dies completely and everything is exported it ought to be gone...thanks everyone


ANYONE ELSE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH DINOS PLEASE DROP YOUR THOUGHTS IT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED
 
I THINK MAYBE EVEN 5 OR 6 DAYS LIGHTS OUT WILL REALLY HELP( I PLAN ON ONLY TURNIGN ON ACTINICS ONCE A DAY FOR ABOTU 2 MINUTES TO FEED THE CLOWN WHO WONT FEED WHEN LIGHTS ARE OFF)

MY CBB WILL BE FINE,,,,HES A SOLDIER ESPECIALLY FOR A COPPERBAND
 
I WONDER WHAT EXACTLY CAUSED IT CONSIDERING MY NUTRIENT LEVEL (KEY WORD IS "TESTS") TESTS AT 0(MAYBE THEY ARE BEING BINDED UP BY ALGAL GROWTH AND OTHER EXPORATION


one last note/question....can silicates alone bring rise to dinoflagellates?
 
Yes, they are a total PITA.

Since you have no photosynthetic organisms in your tank keeping the lights off is a good idea.

AFAIK, silicates are not your problem. They are associated with diatom blooms, the diatoms use them to costruct their bodies. I don't think other algaes use this strategy.

You can have this problem and still have a zero reading of nitrate and phosphate, FWIW. These organisms are very good at utilizing any nutrients; they may be present in/on your live rock and sand, giving you a zero reading with even a good test kit. I wonder if you took a big scoop of sand, shook it in some tank water and then tested if you would have a detectable reading.

Did you transfer old sand to a new tank? This could be a cause of extra available nutrients.

It is very confusing when all the available test kits are no help at all. My idea is that there can be all kinds of sources for nutrients and they aren't always present in the water column. For instance -and this is just my theory- you could have a die off of large quantities of bacteria composing a bio film on surfaces like rock, sand, glass, ect... The algae in question moves in very quickly and takes advantage of the new food source, utilizing the phosphate and nitrate as fast as it is produced by the die off. Nothing goes to waste, everything is utilized by something else in our systems. Unfortunately algae are very good at taking advantage, are very competetive. Dinos are especially good at it because they have the ability to reproduce very quickly, and move to a new location on their own, so it is difficult for anything else to outcompete them.

I think this situation often occurs with tanks that have been disturbed because of bacterial die off; allowing another, faster organism to move in.

IMO in your case the determining factor is going to be keeping the lights off while you establish a good population of bacteria that will outcompete the dinos for the available food. I would go even longer than 3 days, personally, but i'm not sure what effect this would have on your fish.

This may be contrary to your ideas of a 'clean' tank, but I wonder if introducing a food source like vodka or vinegar would give your bacteria population a good kick start to outcompete the dinos. It's just an idea for you. Yes, it's weird, the idea of adding food to get rid of algae, but recently there is a huge interest being generated in the systems that are set up to favor bacteria. It's probaby not necessary; without the lights, bacteria would have the advantage over the dinos to consume whatever food source is causing the bloom.

Anecdotal evidence also suggests that keeping the ph and alk high and stable is of benefit, algaes like dinos and cyano seem to 'like' a lower ph and alk. It sounds like you are pretty on top of things though, so I doubt that is a factor for you.

Anyhoo, just some ideas for you to chew on.

Good luck!!!
 
A true dinoflagellate break out is not all that common, in fact the zooxanthellae algae in coral is a type of dino. I agree with outy that it is a normal algae bloom progression, possibly precipitated by the move. Did you set up with new water or mostly new water? Was the sandbed stirred up pretty good during the move? All possibilities.

I would cut back/reduce feedings, reduce the photo period, increase flow and keep all of your filtration going strong, but DO NOT blow it off the substrate and rocks, dinos or normal algae bloom, bursting those bubbles only releases the spores and it will keep coming back. If anything and if possible you can try using an infant medicine dropper to try to suck it up, but I doubt it will pull it off very well.

Hope this helps some.

Dave
 
If you vacuum them off do they come back the next day? I had a horrible dino problem and was ready to sell everything. I decided to try one final thing before I took it all down.

It worked.

But, I have to go make dinner for the kids so I'll finish the post later.

Can you sense the excitement? The anticipation? The fact that I probably could have typed the answer in the time that I've been sitting here doing this?
 
I'll take a guess....

Maracyn?

Hmmmm, nothing against usinag it for a very bad cyano outbreak, but not sure about dinoflaggelates. I would almost suspect that those who reported success actually had cyano and not dinos.

Yes, there are arguments even amongst taxonomists about what a dinoflaggelate actually is, bacteria, algae, both? I would skip the maracyn based on those arguments alone.

I dosed it for a BAD outbreak of cyano and it worked like a charm. As stated by someone above, zooxanthellae is actually a dinoflaggelate. Why were my corals not effected?
 
Keep your pH at 8.6 or above for just over a week or so. (Increase it slowly with kalk) and that should do it.. shouldnt affect fish for that short time.
 
You got it - Maracyn. Yes I had dinos, not cyano (yes I know the difference) and yes that was the only thing that cured it.

I tried a dark tank for 72 hours, raised the pH for a couple of weeks, massive water changes for weeks on end, etc. etc. etc.

1 Maracyn tablet per 20 gallons of total water volume. Leave the skimmer running but it will go nutso. Keep the tank dark for 2 days. That took care of my problem and they haven't come back.
 
Dinos can get out of control quickly so try everything you can to nip it in the bud quick. My tank crashed last fall due to dinos (not diatoms) killing everything except my gsp, moon coral, shrooms and candy coral. I left the tank in the dark for 2 months doing water changes the whole time... The only two causes I could come up with were that I moved the tank 7 months prior reusing the sand bed and/or the fact I WAS using tap water. Never had a problem w/ the tap water until moving closer to city water. Other than those two things I have no idea what could have caused my outbreak as everything else was stable. I have a pic of the crashed tank if there's interest.
 
I went through dinos myself it took 3 or 4 months until they finally went away. Didnt seem to affect my softies much but it took out nearly all of my stony corals.
 
Dang got some answers thanks everyone......

---I used all new sand in this tank on purpose to rid all those old possible nutrients....and only kept 50% of the water and a week after that 50% was used I did a 20% change just to be nutrient free...wanted to start this one off right.

---ahh i am going to add vinegar when i start dosing Kalk this week so i can add more amounts of kalk and this may help...also this goes hand in hand with the idea of keeping ph high which is what will happen when the kalk starts getting dosed

--i think the theory of die off of any sort is what is contributing and yes these salifert test kits are decent but i guess the sure fire way would be a lab(they just arent good enough are they)

---thanks for the warning about popping bubbles(thought it only applied to valonia) i wont be doing this---gonna let it die off from lack of light and skimm skimm skimm...chemical filtration...and WC's so thats my plan---just kill it rather than physically fight it(i dont have 3 hours a day which is about what it takes the **** grows so fast)

----YES I THOUGHT MARACYN ALREADY(i used it for cyano a couple years ago and it worked wonders and i thought it would for this as well))thought it through before even writing this thread and decided against---no chemicals for me...id rather start all over seeing how i have no livestock but a CBB and clown and couple of snails and shrimp


-----if the method i described fails and i will stick at it for a month at most then i will consider maracyn(although i think it will work but not positive and dont like the idea)

---lets not forget its not an old SB but a NEW SAND BED and i use only RO/DI so not an issue--i think its die off bacteria wise like someone has mentioned and this is coming in to eat up the damn "non testing" nutrients

--" went through dinos myself it took 3 or 4 months until they finally went away. Didnt seem to affect my softies much but it took out nearly all of my stony corals."--------you see then why i am concerned about taking care of this----my tank will be SPS only and essentially Acropora only besides some clams on the SB

---thanks for the pic offer --dont forsee it happening to me--

I AM GOING LIGHTS OFF FOR THIS WEEK AND WC CENTRAL AND WET SKIMMING ALONG WITH CARBON,POLYS, AND ROWA.....THIS OUGHT TO WORK OVER A COUPLE - A FEW WEEKS

----I WILL KEEP PROGRESS POSTED OVER A FEW DAYS

THANKS
 
It seems that many tanks eventually go through this as if its a stage in part of the cycle. As a general rule I dont think it comes back, atleast not nearly as bad as the first time. Perhaps the initial infestation is just a kickoff and eventually it finds a balance.
 
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