Choosing 2 part CA/ALK (B-Ionic vs Reef Fusion vs DIY)

[bigzman]

Chem Gurus

So far I have been successful with 2 parts and SPS on a 210 gallon 4 years in. I started off with B-Ionic a few years ago on a 90 gallon and had great success. Then I upgrade to a 210 gallon and started seachems reef fusion 2 part. I was skeptical at first when a fellow reefer told me I would use less. Well after 1 liter went by on my 210 with twice the amount of frags than in the 90 gallon with the same dosage 50ml I was impressed. What I wasn't impressed with was the $$$$. Seachem reef fusion cost is nearly twice as much. So I have been dosing ESV for the last year and now I am up to 90ml per day.

So here are some questions I came up with from the Data I was able to find on Seachem and ESV.

1. Can these numbers be true?
2. Can one product hold nearly twice the CA and Carbonate as the other and does that in turn mean you can dose less and get same amount.
3. Anyone know the measurements of other vendors and BRS/Randy DIY?
4. I know DIY adds great value but are you getting your money worth? Or Penny wise pound foolish?
5. Some claim to have trace and Mag how much truth does this hold?

E.S.V: http://www.f3images.com/IMD/UserManuals/EV1111.pdf

Component A - Carbonate Alkalinity: 2800 meq/liter (7840 dKH). 1 ml per gallon of aquarium water will raise alkalinity by 0.74 meq/liter (2.07 dKH).
Component B - Calcium Concentration: 54,000 ppm calcium ion. 1 ml per gallon of aquarium water will raise calcium concentration by 16ppm.

Seachem: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ReefFusion.html

Reef Fusion 1â„¢ provides not only 100,000 mg/L of ionic calcium, but also includes biologically appropriate levels of magnesium, strontium, boron, iron, manganese, and molybdenum.
Reef Fusion 2â„¢ contains a mixture of carbonates and bicarbonates at an alkalinity of 4400 meq/L. It is designed to restore and maintain alkalinity in the reef aquarium and provide calcareous species with the essential carbonate needed for growth.

At the end of the day, I now with a tank my size and SPS growth I am getting, I should go to a CA reactor (Which is in the plans). Just wondering for those that stick to 2 part and have tanks smaller 210 gallon range.

Also is anyone on the 200+ gallon SPS system running 2 part?

Thank you,
Z

 

[bertoni]

The numbers you gave for Reef Fusion and B-Ionic seem to be about right, from what I can tell. You can use this calculator get an idea of the concentration of a few more products:

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

All of the products will have some trace elements in them, and I suspect the magnesium claims are accurate, too. How useful that is, though, is unclear. Personally, I prefer minimal trace elements, and I never needed to dose magnesium due to consumption.

I've used B-Ionic and the DIY formulae, and all have worked well.

 

[downbeach]

At one time I did the math on this, but no longer have the specific numbers. In answer to the question about Seachem being stronger than ESV, it was, and both were stronger than either BRS and/or the DIY. I remember the cost of the DIY (recipe 1)using Peladow and A&H Baking soda (baked) to be around $.50 a gallon for each. The BRS chem's worked out to ~ $2.40/gal. for the CaCl and ~ $1.90/gal. for Soda Ash. I relied on my salt mix for all the other "trace" elements. Although I have used most of these supplements at one time or another, they all worked well, but I never saw any significant difference in my tanks. I did see a difference when I stopped using Mrs. Wages, so I went back to using it in my top off.

 

[bigzman]

Thank you all.

Jonathan, when you switched brands did you keep dosage the same. I was amazed how much better the ESV is compared to other brands with the data on the link you provided.

Anyone also top off with kalk as well?

Has anyone ever mixed brands?

 

[bigzman]

Come to think of it can one make DIY 2 part just as strong as Seachems or ESV?

 

[bertoni]

When I switched to the DIY I had to increase the dose. We don't have the kind of mixing equipment that companies have, so it's harder to make a solution as concentrated as some of the commercial two-parts.

 

[bigzman]

Thanks Jonathan,

I figure the increase. Do you know of anyone that mix brands together? ESV with BRS/BRS with Seachem/ etc.

Reason I asked the question is in the event someone likes DIY as well as the benefits of trace and MAG in brand names.

At one point I read someone where that heating water and BRS would concentrate mix. Trying to find the link.

Is heating one way to make stronger 2 part DY/BRS?

Last question, I noticed ESV in gallon size requires addition of RO. Whats the down side if one dosing the volume that comes from manufacture? Is it concentrated?

 

[bertoni]

I have used DIY and B-Ionic at the same time. Any combo should be fine if you compensate for any difference in the concentration.

Heating might help with making a more concentrated solution. I'm not sure about that. It's the alkalinity that's the limiting issue, so you could try it.

Dosing ESV without diluting it likely is okay, but the alkalinity part might have a bit more tendency to cause precipitation.

 

[bigzman]

Just curious. Since I only have 1 4 pump doser. Is mixing them together an option? Example= ESV component A (alk) with reef fusion 2 (Alk) in a large container in a ratio of 2:1. As well as ESV component B (ca) with reef fusion 1 in a 2:1 ratio?

Or

Example= ESV component A (alk) with diy (Alk) in a large container in a ratio of 2:1. As well as ESV component B (ca) with diy (ca)1 in a 2:1 ratio?

 

[inetmug]

At one time I did the math on this, but no longer have the specific numbers. In answer to the question about Seachem being stronger than ESV, it was, and both were stronger than either BRS and/or the DIY. I remember the cost of the DIY (recipe 1)using Peladow and A&H Baking soda (baked) to be around $.50 a gallon for each. The BRS chem's worked out to ~ $2.40/gal. for the CaCl and ~ $1.90/gal. for Soda Ash. I relied on my salt mix for all the other "trace" elements. Although I have used most of these supplements at one time or another, they all worked well, but I never saw any significant difference in my tanks. I did see a difference when I stopped using Mrs. Wages, so I went back to using it in my top off.

ESV is a LOT more $$ than 2.40 a gallon. The 2 gallon concentrate seems to run about $32.

 

[bertoni]

I see what you mean now. Mixing the alkalinity supplements from different brands probably is okay. The same goes for the calcium part. I'm not sure why you'd want to do this, though.

 

[bigzman]

Was just thnking it might be a good way to use up some brs stuff I got a while back with something like reef fusion that will add mag and trace which brs mix has little of. I was thinking off making a 2 x 5 gallon mix of 1 gallon esv which I just got and 3 gallons of brs and then get a 1 gallon of reef fusion. See what results I could can get and if I will have to increase dose or decrease. If I get better results than dosing 90ml then it might be ok to stick with 2 part a bit longer and I get to use up some of the brs I got a while back thinking it would render the need for refills (little did I know it would require 120ml per day dose)

 

[downbeach]

ESV is a LOT more $$ than 2.40 a gallon. The 2 gallon concentrate seems to run about $32.

The BRS chem's worked out to ~ $2.40/gal. for the CaCl and ~ $1.90/gal. for Soda Ash.