Clam in Refugium Questions!

[Mekong]

I was considering putting a clam in my 55gallon fuge. The fuge has a 4-5" sand bed and has 220 watt VHO over it, (10,000k and 6,500k) I have a 80 gallon soft coral reef next to the

Would this be enough light?

Also I am concerened that it would eat the fauna of the fuge, is this a concern? What would I need to feed it and how often? DTs phyto? Is it possible to keep them using only prepared foods?

 

[birdie]

Mekong,
Depending upon the species, yes it would be possible to keep one in there. Also assuming it is over 3 inches, then you wouldn't need to feed it anything because it will be able to support itself on photosynthesis alone. If however, it is under three inches then you would need to feed it with phytoplankton. Dt's works well to feed smaller clams.

I would stick to dereasa, squamosa, or hippopus in there, although I have seen people keep maximas under less.

What is that under your screen name?

Peace
Richard

 

[Mekong]

its an arrowhead puffer

 

[enitnelaVeyaF]

if you put an animal in your refugium, then it negates the concept of a refugium. the clam will prey upon possible beneficial organisms within the space.

Its do-able, but it negates the concept.

 

[M.Maddox]

not again....

not again....

Mekong,
Depending upon the species, yes it would be possible to keep one in there. Also assuming it is over 3 inches, then you wouldn't need to feed it anything because it will be able to support itself on photosynthesis alone. If however, it is under three inches then you would need to feed it with phytoplankton. Dt's works well to feed smaller clams.

I would stick to dereasa, squamosa, or hippopus in there, although I have seen people keep maximas under less.

What is that under your screen name?

Peace
Richard

*sigh* it is NOT possible for heterotrophic organisms to support themselves on glocuse derived from photosynthesis alone! No matter what it is, if it's alive and heterotrophic it's obtaining protein, amino acids, fatty acids, as well as other organics\inorganics somehow. Any biology book\professor\scientist will tell you this.

 

[Scuba Dog]

clam feeding is a subject up to debate, for whatever reason mine do well in my tank...as far as a few fuge with a clam yeah i think its a good idea if you want to get the nitrates down, and im not sure the effect of clam vs pods would be....but ill tell ya this much I like the idea so much that im setting up a 57 gallon clam fuge lol...packed to the gills with clams, corals and a few troublesome fish....plumbed into my existing reef...

 

[enitnelaVeyaF]

Refugium derives from the word refuge. Refuge means a place away from distress, but in the reef hobby the definition is extended to be a place away from predation.

To keep a consumer of beneficial refugium organisms IN the refugium negates the nature and the principle of having one.

Bio-diversity is the key to successful long term husbandry in captive environments. It is often overlooked execpt for the concept of refugiums.

Of course there arent rules are bylaws on how to treat or maintain living organisms in an aquarium, so do as you will, but you can't use the term refugium as it pretains to the aquarium hobby.

And sure clams can survive on photosynthesis, thats part of its evolutiob, but that doesnt mean they are thriving.
You can eat McDonalds as your substanance and survive, but you certainly arent thriving.
Why ignore what you know is needed?

 

[panmanmatt]

I was under the impression that a clam would not have any affect on the pod population as the pods are too large for a clam to eat.

 

[Mekong]

I would rather feed the clam even if it can get by without food. So back to the question I was asking in the first place: How often, how much and what? I dont want to culture food and would rather not get one if thats the only way, but I gather theres an easier way, would DTs work?

I am thinking of a dereasa or squamosa. I want to confirm that it would get enough light if it was light by 220VHO (6,500k bulb and 10,000k bulb [I hear they like 6,500k bulbs]) The sand bed is 12" from the water surface, is this too deep?

I want to put the clam in the fuge becuase #1 it will get eaten in my display, and #2 it wont get enough light, (I think im the 1st to have more light over my fuge than display!)

The way I see it and correct me if I am wrong is that the clam will eat alot of the micro fuana, (ie phyto) which will put the pods in compotion with it, but I would assume it would not eradicate them. I do not have any pod dependant creatures in my tank or creatures that highly rely on phyto (to the best of my knowledge) All thats in there is a bunch of soft corals that dont need to be directly fed, I assume they consume DOCs and my preditory fish. So by this reasoning I would assume that a clam wouldnt have a bad impact more likely a good one on the tank. But I dont really know, what do people here think? Would it be best to keep my fuge full of sand and live rock, some cheato, xenia and kenya for nutrient export?

 

[enitnelaVeyaF]

A "refugium" is a tank without delibrate addition of predation.

Phtoplankton is the core of the food web, it feeds more animals in an environment than you imagine, buy, see, or know about. Taking them out of the chain will eliminate much more than you want.
I am by no means saying it isnt a good tank for a clam, it actually would be pretty happy with all that microfauna (DOCs, PM, bacteria and the like), but it will erradicate them.

So I guess you have to ask yourself what your refugium is a refuge for.
You can say its a refugium for a clam, sure, but nothing under it in the food chain will be able to use it as a refuge due to the predator present.

Otherwise, you can use many different animals as 'filters' but xenia filters have been thought of already and do not work as well as a classic algae scubbing with turf algae or other macroalgae.

 

[Mekong]

Shucks guess I'll have to wait on a clam till my coral banded and takifugu puffer pass on and I get better lights. I trust my puff with corals, he tried a shroom one day when some krill landed on it and I though he was gonna die! But I think a clam would be lunch in no time seeing how I feed him grocery store clams and mussels.

Dont coral banded shrimp eat clams?

 

[PRC]

Every living thing that I'm aware of consumes something. If you were to take this to extremes, your refugium would have to be sterile, in which case it wouldn't serve much purpose.
People use "refugiums" for many different purposes. You need to decide what purpose you would like your refugium to serve, rather than worry about some arbitrary definition of the term. If the primary purpose of your refugium is to serve as a biological filter then I think a clam would be a very appropriate addition.
As far as the lights go, I know people who have very healthy Maximas under VHO's in less than 12" of water. I don't think I'd recommend it, but it's certainly possible. I'd think you'd be fine with a Derasa or Squamosa with VHO's.

 

[enitnelaVeyaF]

If all you want are amphiopods, then yes, a clam tank will act as a refuge for them. If you are trying to accumulate food for your coral, well, its has been stated (Knop) that clams consume 10 times more food stuff than zooxanthellea dependant coral. The clam is going to eat quite a bit of the lower life forms in the food web, thus disuading the next, and next, and next lifeforms.

It would be like keeping a goat in youyr garden when you want the vegetables to grow. Its a happy place for the goat, but not for the population of plants.

If you dont want they garden, they hey, go at it.

Deresa and Squamosa get very large and wouldnt be good for most aquariums. Less light entensive, sure, but by far not any more easy.

 

[Mekong]

Well if I have a softcoral only tank and no pod dependent creatures is there need for the "garden" (phyto, pods...)

As for the fuge:

My main concern is lowering my phos, which the cheato is for.

The second concern is overall water quality, my nitrates are never over 2.5ppm with out the fuge, despite my stocked tank. Which I hope the DSB will help with.

Third and finaly, making my effective water volume larger.


I dont belive that my corals eat much phyto, I currently keep GreenStarPolyps, zoos, rics, kenya, toadstools, various shrooms, xenia, cloves polyps, various leathers, cabbage coral, palys, and someday when I upgrade my PCs on the reef I want to keep possibly a brain coral or somthing like that. Would a clam realy impact these corals?

I would enjoy the clam and I think room for the clam wont be a problem at all as I am thinking of resitricting the cheatos area so it wont bump the clam or corals.

I also want to get one thing straight, I dont need to feed it if its over 3"??? Just to be sure that its doing well would target feeding it a squairt of DTs phyto weekly be good?

Thanks a bunch everyone in helping me to decied!

 

[Mekong]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^