Clam Longevity

[Kalkbreath]

And once again I must point out that it is the tens of thousands of domesticated landscape and farm plants which illustrate quite clearly that domestication of plants through artificial selective cultivation is an effective means of manipulating genetic dispositions to yield plant cultivars which are better suited to the end user.

It is a mistake to look at coral and clam husbandry and forget that it is the plants (zooxanthellae) inside these animals which ultimately determines the fate of the host .

Out in the ocean or in an aquarium it is the tiny one celled algae which we are actually raising not the host clam or coral.

There are hundreds of known individual Zooxanthellae Clades.

Each group or Clade of zooxanthelae have adapted their own unique survival traits which helps them over come extremes of habitat like light tolerances, water quality or temperature tolerance.

Likewise, in aquaculture zooxanthellae adapt by changing their genetic make up. Some Zooxanthellae Clades are only known to exists in captivity.
Farmers can manipulate the zooxanthellae to produce a form of zooxanthellae better suited to captive life.

 

[ezcompany]

hoho did the new ride start already?

 

[mbbuna]

what does any of that have to do with the longevity of clams?

kalk why dont you start your own thread on the topic

 

[jmaneyapanda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10903669#post10903669 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath
And once again I must point out that it is the tens of thousands of domesticated landscape and farm plants which illustrate quite clearly that domestication of plants through artificial selective cultivation is an effective means of manipulating genetic dispositions to yield plant cultivars which are better suited to the end user.

It is a mistake to look at coral and clam husbandry and forget that it is the plants (zooxanthellae) inside these animals which ultimately determines the fate of the host .

Out in the ocean or in an aquarium it is the tiny one celled algae which we are actually raising not the host clam or coral.

There are hundreds of known individual Zooxanthellae Clades.

Each group or Clade of zooxanthelae have adapted their own unique survival traits which helps them over come extremes of habitat like light tolerances, water quality or temperature tolerance.

Likewise, in aquaculture zooxanthellae adapt by changing their genetic make up. Some Zooxanthellae Clades are only known to exists in captivity.
Farmers can manipulate the zooxanthellae to produce a form of zooxanthellae better suited to captive life.

And once again I must point out that your clams are NOT passing any beneficial or selected trait to any future offspring.

For what its worth, I spoke to our horticulturist/master gardener where I work. He used to work heavily in tomato culturing and propogation. These domestic plants you so vociferously proclaim as your evidence, are actually quite not proving your point. As it turns out, the plants you buy at your local nursery are truly no different than the wild varieties. The plant species which HAVE been domesticated, have been done so through excessive manipulation and selection of stock, of which the offspring SHOW THE SELECTED FOR TRAIT OF THE INTENTION OF SELCETION. What exactly is the trait you are selecting for in your domestic clams? Hardiness? That is not a trait that is genetically passed. So what it is?

It would be a mistake to not view the relationship of clams/corals/zooxanthellae/ETC. as a symbiotic relationship. You seem to stress that we are really raising algae that just so happens to grwo in the shape of a clam. No, we are caring for an organism that requires another for mutual benefit and survival.

So, again, here we are. What is the selection that clam propogators are using? How are selecting for the "better" clam? I would really like to know.


EDIT- Mbbuna, you're right. I am not going to continue in this again. I have asked these questions too many times without any answers to clutter up this space anymore. Good luck with the space clams KAlk!

 

[Kalkbreath]

Understanding that there is a big difference between the skill needed using an open system (ocean ) and the difficulty in duplicating those water paramenters in a closed system can not be over stated.

We have so much more to learn as a hobby .
many of the misinformations currently held in the trade as truths are but shallow interpretaions of the real science.

Even formerly simple notions like calcification of coral skeletons may actually be more about assisting the zooxanthellae in photosynthesis's by the releasing of protons (which the algae use ) then simply increasing growth of the skeleton.
It may very well be that corals and clams continue to precipitate calcium ions for the sole purpose of supplying the zooxanthellae.
the fact that corals and clam continue to grow even long after they have out grown the need to gain size illustrates this principle.

Even the hosts realize its all about the algae.

It is the zooxanthella which undergo multiple genetic adaptations as environmental conditions change.

The type of zooxanthellae inside the host has a direct correlation with where and what conditions the host can thrive.

Do you suggest that the type of zooxanthella does not play into what conditions the coral or clam can survive?

There are countless scientists who can demonstrate other wise.
Here is one you can wet you clam lips with:http://www.fiu.edu/~lajeunes/

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10904212#post10904212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath
Understanding that there is a big difference between the skill needed using an open system (ocean ) and the difficulty in duplicating those water paramenters in a closed system can not be over stated.

We have so much more to learn as a hobby .
many of the misinformations currently held in the trade as truths are but shallow interpretaions of the real science.

Even formerly simple notions like calcification of coral skeletons may actually be more about assisting the zooxanthellae in photosynthesis's by the releasing of protons (which the algae use ) then simply increasing growth of the skeleton.
It may very well be that corals and clams continue to precipitate calcium ions for the sole purpose of supplying the zooxanthellae.
the fact that corals and clam continue to grow even long after they have out grown the need to gain size illustrates this principle.

Even the hosts realize its all about the algae.

It is the zooxanthella which undergo multiple genetic adaptations as environmental conditions change.

The type of zooxanthellae inside the host has a direct correlation with where and what conditions the host can thrive.

Do you suggest that the type of zooxanthella does not play into what conditions the coral or clam can survive?

There are countless scientists who can demonstrate other wise.
Here is one you can wet you clam lips with:http://www.fiu.edu/~lajeunes/

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