Clam under PC

[Rockhead21564]

Wow Bob, I said "all most all" not all and never said anyone was "lying". I'm not the final word nor an expert. I do say that most people with PC's/clams don't see the whole picture and don't give all the information because they don't know any better. I believe these threads and forums should give info on the best possible way to do things, i.e. the easiest for newbies.

As James says " you can't go wrong with MH's", not "sure their both great and are equally as good". I don't think you read his comments very well though, he just said everything we've been saying in past discussions. He's saying that you can do it but not all will survive unless you find a "tough one". Sounds familiar. James states that it takes a year or more for clams to strave. Sounds familiar. States MH's are your safest and best bet. Sounds familiar. Did you read the whole thing?

I also believe that 25+ years and 1000's of customer tanks cleaned, sold, and consulted, is "limited anecdotal evidence". I do know a couple things about stuff and seen lots of it, lol.

Nobody here was immature on this thread, maybe some alittle more passionate, but not immature. Well, until you kinda did the I'M RIGHT YOU'RE ALL WRONG DANCE" anyway. This thread is why I usually don't jump into this mess, nobody wants to be wrong. They read the part of an answer they like and leave out the parts that say their wrong. They've got a degree, which nobody else could possible have, some experience with saltwater and read a couple books and act superior to any laymen that spouts an opinion. Funny its "ALWAYS" doctors and lawyers,lol. Waste of breath, probably why Mbuna "retired" for it. Good luck all.

 

[rabidcrab]

no, the fact is the arguement was started by me saying you can do it. and everyone who holds their head high in the clouds and refuse a more dynamic proposition on aquariums wants to bite me and tell me im wrong, and then to go as far as picking apart my tank? BOB is certainly right, I have been laughing at my computer screen on this thread.

Im going to the world pet expo today, Ill remember to talk to julian sprung about this. Im sure hes smart enough to understand that you can grow clams with PC's.

The fact is this thread was took way too far. Due to arrogance of a few members. Be it they have been around the Forum longer than other members, everyone has a valid opinion. And i will take you people saying "OMGZ YOU HAVE TO HAVE METAL HALIDES WITH CLAMS OR ELSE YOULL DESTROY LIFE" and Ill reply with an "ok, ive never had that problem before! my clams are beautiful and HAPPY!" no problem people.

I didn't attack anyone elses opinion, atleast untill my opinion was attacked. I wont say any names but if your gonna attack peoples opinions GET OFF THE INTERNET.

So lesson i learned: reconsider voicing your legit, time tested, experienced, and perfectly acceptable opinion again in these forums.... (wait doesnt that destroy the point of a forum????? thanks to you arrogant members.)

 

[rabidcrab]

BTW im not discrediting anyone elses experience, im sure you guys know what your doing with fish tanks.

but this whole discussion is a bit rediculous. I think a true seasoned aquarist would have a more dynamic approach to opinions and reef keeping discussions.

 

[jbittner]

In some tanks MH can be the wrong solution. I have a small 55 gal that used to have MH lighting. I had 2x250 and pc actinics. Even in the winter I could not keep my temps stable and the temperature would get to 84 degrees during the day (even worse in the summer). Don't get me wrong I loved the light and the shimmering effect on the tank. I decided to change to t5. Most clam people call this a downgrade in light. My clams get all the energy they need from the new lights. I have a 3 yr old crocea that has been in both tanks. It has show no change in color intensity or growth rates. I also have 3 newer croceas (just past the one year mark) that are doing great. My temps stay right at 80 degrees. On a side note, I would never put a crocea or a maxima in a tank with PC, not all flourescents are the same.

 

[jbittner]

BTW, mbbuna sweet tanks.

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9304089#post9304089 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bobbacon


The immature antics and unscientific conclusions by these so-called experts keep many of us laughing at our computer screens.

this is my first post in the thread

a few months is No testament to success

#2

the people that collect these clams use snorkels or hookahs. there very good at what they do but they dont go that deep.

this statement was made because i thought i was in this thread that i had read previously. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1035826

i think this thread should be renamed "you may be barely able to sustain a clam without these recommendations, but if you want to give your clams what they need to thrive read this"

#3

this is a legitimate question (that was never answered)

what kind? and for how long? Pics please!

this is legit also, doesnt it make your eyebrow go up when someone contradicts them self?

you contradict yourself within the same thread, do you have 3 or 4 or 180w PC or 240W PC

i stand by this also, go look at the photo,rocks, pumps, glass, below the substrate.

nice NEW tank, how long have you had the clams? i see little or no coralline algae growth on the back tank. keeping a clam alive for a few months isnt proof of them thriving

whats wrong with this statement? its true

this reminds me of a guy a few years ago that used to crow about keeping clams under normal output fluorescents. he has a web site that explains "how " he does it. i check in to his site every now and then. he always has different clams, i wonder where the old clams go? but technical he does keep them under these lights

heres the first attack in the thread (not made by me but on me)

the tanks been around for a year. i dont need to justify anything to you, this thread went from giving opinions on exp. to select people being close minded and hard headed. mbbuna ur just following the crowd.

my reply to that was " :lol: " and

your right, you dont need to justify anything to me. but the original poster should get good info. and you should tell the original poster how long you've had the clams so they know what experience you are pulling from

Bob dont miss this part, this is your very first post in this thread and on RC. way to go brother!!!! i think a biochemist could come up with something better then this.

MBBUNA reminds me of Cliff Clavin the mailman from the TV show Cheers. LOL

well done my friend, now whats this all about?

The immature antics and unscientific conclusions by these so-called experts keep many of us laughing at our computer screens.

where is your science?

where did i attack anyone?

 

[jbittner]

mbbuna, don't worry about some of the people on reefcentral. Most of us here thank you for all the good info you and critterkeeper post here. Some people (me included) don't like to here the words can't or shouldn't.

 

[rabidcrab]

theres no right way to do anything.
and this arguement is proof that some people don't understand that.

 

[critterkeeper]

Hey Rabidcrab,

You wrote:

"I have a buisness for maintaining saltwater tanks and i couldnt tell you how many tanks with PC's have clams thriving..."

Enlighten me. How many? What species, how deep, what lights, how long, etc.?

Melbourne is pretty small, how many reef customers do you have over there??? (I'm in Tampa)

 

[Rockhead21564]

No right way to do anything, huh. That may be the silliests thing I've heard when it comes to reefing. There might be slight difference in some things, but overall there are set ways to do things correctly. I do wish you luck. As for the gentlemen with the heating issues and MH's - chillers and fans, oh my,lol.

 

[rabidcrab]

eh, ive seen enough successful tanks and enough different successful set ups to know that theres no reason to follow a cookie cutter aquarium model.

and to critter, theres enough buisness over here... trust me. as far as clams+pc's the setups vary.. alot. most of the time its either a simple light set up, with clams positioned very high (like my own set ups) or pc's retrofitted in hoods to give lots of light.

as bob said earlier "if its mantle is receiving enough photonic energy, it doesn’t matter if it is from MH, PC or other means."
Try it out for yourself guys, dont take my word for it. Im a bit over this thread, theres obviously enough people out there that wanna argue over clams and light. Its just a hobby, and no one has to turn it into an arguement, so sorry to all if i contributed to it, my intentions were purely to share my experience.

 

[critterkeeper]

I understand the set-ups are not all the same, which is why it would be nice of you to actually document each set-up here. What we need are lots of facts/data and fewer opinions. Agreed? I am ALWAYS open to looking at new data, and have said many times that my conclusions/opinions would change if a significant number of hobbyists could report difinitive success under T5 or anything else. So far, that hasn't happened. I realize "a significant number" is somewhat subjective, but I'm in this to help hobbyists and clams - that's it.

So, I know it may take some time, but please take a few minutes and do the best you can to describe what you have living under what lights, etc. Besides, if you state that you have been so successful, but then won't take the time to give out specific details - you're really not helping anyone. For all I know, you've got 4 croceas in 4 tanks, all sitting 4 inches from the bulbs...

For anyone else too, I'd be particularly interested to hear from hobbyists about cases where they try a clam under X lights and they do fine, then they add another one (or more) and those don't. Get the idea?

Thanks,

JF

P.S. Somewhere down the road I do intend to write up a second edition of my clam book. This sort of thing (lighting) is the one area where I really need to hear more from hobbyists. Or everyone could just send me a hundred bucks and I'll set up a huge lab and figure it all out under controlled conditions myself (har, har, har - dreaming).

 

[bobbacon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9312861#post9312861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by critterkeeper
I understand the set-ups are not all the same, which is why it would be nice of you to actually document each set-up here. What we need are lots of facts/data and fewer opinions. Agreed? I am ALWAYS open to looking at new data, and have said many times that my conclusions/opinions would change if a significant number of hobbyists could report difinitive success under T5 or anything else. So far, that hasn't happened. I realize "a significant number" is somewhat subjective, but I'm in this to help hobbyists and clams - that's it.

So, I know it may take some time, but please take a few minutes and do the best you can to describe what you have living under what lights, etc. Besides, if you state that you have been so successful, but then won't take the time to give out specific details - you're really not helping anyone. For all I know, you've got 4 croceas in 4 tanks, all sitting 4 inches from the bulbs...

For anyone else too, I'd be particularly interested to hear from hobbyists about cases where they try a clam under X lights and they do fine, then they add another one (or more) and those don't. Get the idea?

Thanks,

JF

P.S. Somewhere down the road I do intend to write up a second edition of my clam book. This sort of thing (lighting) is the one area where I really need to hear more from hobbyists. Or everyone could just send me a hundred bucks and I'll set up a huge lab and figure it all out under controlled conditions myself (har, har, har - dreaming).

If you are truly serious about collecting data on the experiences of hobbyists, there are better methods than asking in a single thread at RC.
You should construct a matrix of questions to allow for a standardized scientific analysis. You might also want to use your website as a collection portal for the responses you may receive if you promote your survey to a wide range of hobbyists and reef groups.

These are only suggestions. After viewing your Curriculum Vitae, I was quite surprised that someone with a Masters Degree in Geology and teaching at the community college level, would ask such an open ended questions under the guise of wanting to collect scientific data. If one were naive, one might believe that you were just trying to 'put up or shut up' rabidcrab for having a different point of view.

 

[a4twenty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9316911#post9316911 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bobbacon
After viewing your Curriculum Vitae, I was quite surprised that someone with a Masters Degree in Geology and teaching at the community college level, would ask such an open ended questions under the guise of wanting to collect scientific data. If one were naive, one might believe that you were just trying to 'put up or shut up' rabidcrab for having a different point of view.

i guess one could make up that conclusion, or as he said , he is interested in the information for the second edition of his book.

you might want to take a look at his book,Giant Clams in the Sea and the Aquarium . it is an awesome read, full of up to date information about clams backed up with references. IMO, a must have for the clam lover

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Jeez- how have I missed this one?!

You can also keep a tridacnid under incandescant bulbs- provided you have enough of them over the tank. Does this make it a good idea to promote their use? Absolutely NOT! Because it has and will be frequently misinterpreted to others as "clams can live under any incandescant". This is why there is so much objection to the claims of success. Because it is far and away, without a doubt, the exception to the rule. Accept it.

 

[critterkeeper]

Actually, I already had a sticky post a while back with specific questions about keeping them under fluorescents. It stayed at the top for a couple of months I think - and only a handful of people responded, and most responses were incomplete. So, now I ask people directly whenever the opportunity arises.

I take what I can get...

"If one were naive, one might believe that you were just trying to 'put up or shut up' rabidcrab for having a different point of view."

Uh, put up is what I asked. Thought I made it it clear that shut up is what we don't want. If he's got info, we can all benefit from it.

Ain't it funny how different people get different things out of the same posts?

JF

 

[ezcompany]

i think its threads like these that causes chris to retire from posting on the forum
i don't think i've ever seen a "clams under pc" thread without some bit of antagonism

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9319464#post9319464 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezcompany
i think its threads like these that causes chris to retire from posting on the forum

i just don't need to post any more, haven't you noticed the increase in posting by people with very impressive credentials like Dentist, Biology student and Biochemist ! every one of these new posters have made posts just full of useful information, they've cleared up all the gray areas, there's nothing left to say.

 

[Jovreefer]

Ugh.. I cant believe I'm going to jump in on this thread... but here I am.

Granted I agree crocea's & maxima's should only be kept under MH... but they can be kept under PC's with proper care. I kept a crocea for almost 1.5 years under pc's, not only that but in a tiny nano tank.

I would definatly not reccomend it, espically to a newbie.

Clam was put in a 2 gallon tank in my cube for 4 months before transfering to a 10 gallon under 96W pc. Clam was almost 3 inches when I got him, I did feed fresh phyto about once a month when I visited a friend & grabbed some from him, so yes, it was getting tiny bits of extra supliments. Tank was no where near natural light either. No skimmer for about half the time either .. just bi-weekly water changes. That tank was running for 1 year.

I eventually upgraded to a 20H when I moved & got a MH light for the clam. Clam is still alive... will be 3 years old this comming july.

The only strange thing I've seen with this clam is the shell took on a Maxima growth look instead of the smoother crocea look. Dont know if that was somehow due to the PC lighting or what, but even a year later under MH it still has long "scoot" growth.

I've been meaning to get a picture of the growth forever now to show the smooth to ridgid growth... REALLY neat looking, I've had quite a few people comment on it who see it in person.

I think I covered all the basis hear, size of tank, lights, duration under lights, size of clam, no windows, feedings... so I'd hope any questions be truly for discovery & not simply to dis-credit me & flame me

Edit: oh yea... almost forgot, it grew in every tank, I had a new shell layer in the 2 gallon. several in the 10 gallon & just as many in the 20 under the MH.. have not noticed any speeding up or slowing down of growth this whole time. Actually just measured the clam last month for the first time when I got my new baby maxima, clam is now 6.5 inches. Much bigger than I had guestimated.

 

[Serioussnaps]

I wonder what the skeptics opinions on T5 s and clams are?

BTW i didnt know PETA was an RC sponsor! its a stinking dime a dozen clam that alot of people would see as food