cleanup crew.

Hi,

I see lots of people complain about hermits, but no one says why they dislike them soo much.

Please provide reasons. I am thinking of putting number of hermits in my 80 Gal FOWLR system.

I would like to understand why so many of you dislike them.

Thanks

Robert
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15049613#post15049613 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LiveRockRob
Hi,

I see lots of people complain about hermits, but no one says why they dislike them soo much.

Please provide reasons. I am thinking of putting number of hermits in my 80 Gal FOWLR system.

I would like to understand why so many of you dislike them.

Thanks

Robert

The main reason people don't like hermits was I believe hinted at above, they eat snails and as a crab could potentially eat other desired/beneficial things in your tank. I haven't seen them eating really anything other than snails, which they are normally doing because they need a new shell, not because they are snail hunters. Another reason some people may not like them is because they can tend to cruise over anything/everything irritating some corals.
You can normally avoid the snail killing by providing extra empty shells for them to move into. As for irritating corals in the tank, many other creatures do that as well, not normally a big deal.

Hth
 
Rob, I do like hermits, but they are regarded as omnivorous opportunists. They do eat some of the beneficial critters from the sandbed, but the real reason so many ban them from their tanks is because they eat the snails. Cerith snails in particular because they really like that shape of shell. Sometimes they'll attack a snail because the hermit needs a larger home. But other times they'll attack a snail just out of pure instinct. I have a Zebra hermit that I have named "trouble maker". Not just because he has killed a snail or two, but because when ever he finds a snail on the sandbed, he'll roll it on to its back, then walk away. Snails can have a hard time turning themselves over on fine grained sand (astraea can't even do it). I have had days when my Zebra would turn the same snail on its back several times. If I try to help the snail back over and the Zebra sees me doing it, he'll actually try to interfere. I suspect it's a survival instinct designed to starve the snail. It is annoying and I have had to actually pin him down while waiting for the snail to reach the safety of the glass.

Hermits will also often fight amongst themselves. But for me, it's just not a reef without a few hermits.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15047277#post15047277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamest0o0
I personally love hermits, I think of them as more of a tank addition than a part of the CuC though. I plan to get a few interesting looking ones just for my own entertainment.

Finally, someone who is not a hate monger towards hermits.
So what if they kill a snail or two. They have more personality then the snails anyway.

Buy a bag of extra shells at the craft store for a couple of $$ and they will leave the snails alone.
 
Snails are way over rated.

1. They really don't do much to clean algae off of the glass or rocks unless they are in large numbers.

2. They have a short life span, can clog drains and overflows and rot and decay in hidden places when they croke.

3. Most of the snails sold in clean up crews are not appropriate for the warm waters of our reef tanks anyways.

Bad Snails:
- Margarita Snails like cooler water and die quickly
- Astraea Snails just are pitiful. They drown and die when tipped over.
- Turbo Snails are also mostly meant for slightly cooler waters and get too big and seem to die easy.
- Nerite Snails are not really appropriate for most aquariums cause they like cooler waters and intertidal zones.

Good Snails:
-Nassarius Snails Vibex are better if in numbers, large ones are ok but still don't clean much above the sandbed.
-Strombus Fighting Conchs are interesting and somewhat useful, but still don't do much.
-Ceriths Definitely the best snail choice for all around cleaning. They'll eat mostly anything too but still at a snail's pace.
-Trochus Snails These are my favorite pick for film/hair algae cleaning on rocks and glass. They are one of the only snails available which are suitable for warm waters of aquariums. They live longer than Turbos, are not too big and IMO are much hardier.

Hermits

1. Hermits do get a bad rap and are not given proper credit for doing the majority of the work in our clean up crews.

2. Sometimes they may actually kill a snail but mostly they just end up doing the dirty work of cleaning up the rotting mess of a drowning snail.

3. Hermits are much more active than snails and actually clean up excess food and waste at a productive rate.

4. Snails don't do much anyways and most better serve the clean up crew by just feeding themselves to the hermits.

Hermits
-Dwarf Blue These are good hermits but usually come very small and are moderately resilient.
-Dwarf Zebra Hermits These are probably the ones that get a bad rap because of their somewhat aggressive nature. I like them because some grow to 1-2'', are very active, they grow very quickly and are very resilient.
-Dwarf Red Hermits These are slightly more aggressive than the blue hermits but usually come a little bigger.
-Scarlet Reef Hermits These are recognized by many as the "reef-safe" hermit being the least aggressive of the dwarfs. I like them cause they grow large and are pretty hardy but are not as active as the others.

So I would recommend 4-5 Trochus Snails, 4-5 Ceriths, 5-6 Scarlet Reef Hermits, and 4-5 Dwarf Zebra Hermits. Keep in mind the hermits at the stores or online are small compared to their adult size. So be sure to have extra shells for them to grow into. You could also add a shrimp like a Scarlet Cleaner or Blood/Fire Shrimp. They are fun and reef-safe.
 
I'm Back with updated summary! Please add your experience to this thread so we can create a great collection of the experiences over CUCs:


Cerith Snails (BEST)
-they work the glass and rock.
-the cerith often spend the day buried in the sand and goto work at night
-will eat algae out of the sandbed and occasionally bury themselves in it. This is healthy for the sandbed and most other snails don't do it.
-Ceriths are the best for sand, I have six of them and they spend the majority of their time in it.
-Definitely the best snail choice for all around cleaning. They'll eat mostly anything too but still at a snail's pace.


Nassarius Vibex (GOOD)
-on the sand team i have a few nassarius snails, they munch on any uneaten food
-they are meat eaters, so you should wait until you have some fish to feed, otherwise it might starve. But they too eat from the sandbed and bury themselves in it.
-they are a good snail to have if you have sandbed.
-they are not algae eaters.
-Vibex are better if in numbers, large ones are ok but still don't clean much above the sandbed.


Astraea (So So)
-These can't flip themselves right side up though if they tip over.
-They work the glass and rock.
-My astreas seem to stay on the rock mostly with some time on the glass.
-just are pitiful. They drown and die when tipped over.

Trochus (GOOD)
-they aren't as voracious, but they tend to be very thorough and like to stay to the liverock.
-These are my favorite pick for film/hair algae cleaning on rocks and glass. They are one of the only snails available which are suitable for warm waters of aquariums. They live longer than Turbos, are not too big and IMO are much hardier.



Strombus (GOOD)
-They are good for variety and really get into the small nooks and crannies that other snails can't reach.
-Fighting Conchs are interesting and somewhat useful, but still don't do much.

Nerite
-are not really appropriate for most aquariums cause they like cooler waters and intertidal zones.


Margarita (NOT A RIGHT CHOICE)
-margaritas dying early, likely due to tank temps to warm from what they are accustomed to
-don't usually live as long
-like cooler water and die quickly


brittle star (GOOD)
-good and cleaning up and uneaten food.
-is an option and a good idea, IMO. Nothing else cleans UNDER the liverock like a brittle-star. This is very healthy for the liverock and your tank in general.
-just be warned you will not see much of them as they are nocturnal


Turbos (So So)
-voracious and can grow large enough to knock over corals.
-they are bulldozers ,and more trouble than they are worth
-are also mostly meant for slightly cooler waters and get too big and seem to die easy.

Crabs (?)
-are not to be trusted.
-Once your tank has visible signs of hair algae, you can add an Emerald Crab. Again, it's a crab and so not everyone likes them
-Hermits do get a bad rap and are not given proper credit for doing the majority of the work in our clean up crews.
-Sometimes they may actually kill a snail but mostly they just end up doing the dirty work of cleaning up the rotting mess of a drowning snail.
-Hermits are much more active than snails and actually clean up excess food and waste at a productive rate.
 
I also would like to know people's opinions on how many per gallon. According to one book I read there should really only be 1 hermit crab per 10 gallons.
 
Based on the book I just finished reading "The Marine Reef Aquarium" by Philip Hunt here are the stocking levels he suggests for snails and hermits.

SNAILS:

Astraea and Lithopoma: 1 Snail per 2.5 Gal of tank capacity

Trochus: 1 Snail per 26 Gal of tank capacity (They can grow to 3" in dia).

Tectus: 1 Snail per 26 Gal of tank capacity (They can grow over 3" in dia).

Nerita: 1 Snail per 2.5 Gal of tank capacity

HERMITS:

1 Hermit per 4 to 13 gallons of tank capacity, depending on the ultimate size of the crabs.

Robert
 
One must take into consideration that the long term ratio of survival for snails and hermits is probably less than 50%. This is where I dislike large snails because when some die they make a big stinky mess. And with the dwarf hermits, they usually are sold extremely small and have less of a chance for surviving as a bigger hermit of the same type. Hermits also fight among themselves for empty shells, food, territory and who knows what else. I would have to say one dwarf zebra hermit usually grows to 1-1.5'' and can patrol an area of a 40g breeder to the point that eventually probably all the other smaller hermits will not survive. In my 75g eventually there were only 2 1.5'' dwarf zebras left and maybe a few scarlet's afraid to come out. But they were great for scavenging.

So a hermit/gallon ratio...

I would like to make it less generalized to eliminate, well generalizations in how we are comparing these recommendations. The same goes for the 3-5W/gallon ratio. I like the idea that the hermit or snail's size must be known to make a better estimate. To go even further I would say that as the snail or hermit's size increases, the tank's capacity should increase at some exponential rate. This Phillip Hunt doesn't really show this capacity change by just using the maximum size of the snails. I mean it seems pretty odd to just put one snail in a 26g tank if the snail is only 0.5''. It is evident by his stocking recommendations that the size of the snail or hermit is exponentially correlated to tank size. You can see this by the big difference in tank size for just a couple inches in snail size. But this exponential ratio involves way too variables to try to form a unified snail-hermit/tank size theory. I would just have to say unlike an unrealistic, static and perfect stocking ratio, an ever changing ratio is the one for sure thing.
 
That's just way too much stuff than any sane person should think about if your extremely concerned about getting the perfect clean up crew. Luckily, your not me and didn't have to produce this verbal vomit for hundreds of lab reports throughout college.
 
Guys, I have a question now. I decided to pick the following CUCs:

Cerith Snail x 100
Astraea Snail x 20
Blue Leg Hermit Crab x 20
Brittle Star x 2

and

Nassarius Vibex (will get when I have fish in the tank)

My Tank is 125G with 120p LR and 120p LS.

Please advise if I have to adjust the population of any type. I just don't want to overkill the tank and starve animals after my initial algae is gone.

Thanks,
Bijan (bms270)
 
For all you hermit proponents, would you recommend a CUC basest primarily on them? I have never had much luck with turbos or Astraea. So I would like to come up with a CUC for my 90gal fowlr base on hermits and possibly Nassarius
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15077874#post15077874 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bms270
Guys, I have a question now. I decided to pick the following CUCs:

Cerith Snail x 100
Astraea Snail x 20
Blue Leg Hermit Crab x 20
Brittle Star x 2

and

Nassarius Vibex (will get when I have fish in the tank)

My Tank is 125G with 120p LR and 120p LS.

Please advise if I have to adjust the population of any type. I just don't want to overkill the tank and starve animals after my initial algae is gone.

Thanks,
Bijan (bms270)

do you have algae (food) in the tank for them to eat now? otherwise, you can start with fewer of each and add more as you need.
 
I would say replace a few hermits with an Emerald crab. Emerald's are voracious algae eaters, sometimes even bubble algae, and have a lot of personality.

Yesterday, while trying to siphon flatworms out of my tank, my Emerald grabbed the airline tubing I was using and wouldn't let it go. Pulled upward, slowly increasing pressure to about 6 pounds before finally slipping free. Their antics can be quite amusing. :)

I would also replace a few of the snails with Trochus. And if you're going to have hermits, then I feel there is an advantage to some biodiversity. At least 1 or 2 red scarlets could be helpful.

JM.02
 

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