Clearwater/Largo/Dunedin Microscope / Dinoflagellates?

Ted_C

Active member
Anyone have a microscope up to 40x that can take digital pics and video? I'd like to bring a sample of my aquarium water to you to see if I do indeed have dinoflagellates.

I think Roger has one - but spring hill is a hike for me.

I'm currently in day 1 of raising my pH through Kalk slurry and day 2 of a total blackout. I've exported alot of this brown slime algae I have to the filter socks - but I can still see the eggcrate having a significant ongoing presence.
 
Ted, I do not have exactly what your asking for but I do have a handheld 30x and 60x magnifier loop. I use it to inspect new corals for pests. Your more than welcome to use it.
I have also been battling "something" on the sandbed that could best be described as cyno. However I do not know how to identify one variant from another. I have used chemi-clean twice now and although it kicks the crap out of whatever I have the condition does seem to re surface. Although this last round (2nd attempt) definitely seems to have changed the behavior of my condition. This second round I did a three day black out, then on day 2 I added the chemi-clean. Then only turned my 2 t5's back on after day 3. Then waited a week and did a 5 gallon water change every 2 days for the next 2 weeks. This is how long it took for my skimmer to calm down enough to start collecting instead of just overflowing back into the sump.
Not to highjack this post, but I am finding in my case this has nothing to do with po4. My phos has read zero on a hanna checker for the last 2 years. I have tried other testers, bought new regents. Never anything but zero. my no3 is always around 6. I know people will say "the cyno is eating your phos" but during the treatment and afterward when the sand was still pearly white my phos is zero. Now I have a tiny red tint in a small portion of sand and phos is zero. I think I have an imbalance of good bacteria in relationship to the bad. I believe this is my issue. Maybe this might help your attempt to eradicate the pest. I could write another 1k words on this in regards to my personal experience, and I haven't won yet, at least not completely.
 
If you do get a sample under a scope, use AlgaeId.com to figure out what species you are fighting. They all look somewhat like amber colored almonds. Cyanos will look stringy. Some Dino species have simple targets you can hit while others are more complex. Check out the "Dinoflagellates" thread but start at page 100. There is interesting info about actually culturing skimmate to find cilliates that eat Dinos - but that requires confirmation with a scope to make sure you have good cilliates that can eat your Dinos.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. The 4 day blackout didn't really finish them off like I hoped it would. Raising the pH with lime also didn't knock them out. It did knock them back - but they aren't gone - that's for sure.

I've turned off the skimmer and UV - I'm going to try to increase my biodiversity I think. Pods and Phyto for a while.

Doug - I'm up to post 1450 in that Dino thread (pages aren't a good reference - as I have my settings to view 50 threads per page - but I think by default - I'm well beyond that 100 page mark you referenced - I'm on pg 29 with my settings). There's two schools of thought it seems: Limit Nutrients (Super Clean) or promote biodiversity (Dirty). As for the microscope - I think its going to turn out like everything else has turned out for me in Florida. If you want it done - your going to have to do it yourself (and buy a microscope).

This all goes back to my issues I've been having since May of 2015 - I dont know if you remember or not - but I asked why this brown algae was only growing on my plastic surfaces (none on sand bed). I thought I solved it when I moved my biocubes up - but it didn't. I've bleached the flag racks twice now - which probably killed off any biodiversity I might have had building up.

Also - this year - I noticed my allergies were completely out of control. Irritated nostrils, watering eyes, maybe even partial blindness in my left eye (the one that watered the most profusely). Was it Palyotoxins or just allergies and mucus? Not sure.

Before:
2016_04_28_FTS.jpg


After:
2016_05_18_FTS.jpg


pH for the last 5 days:
2016_05_18_pH.jpg
 
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Ted, give me a call at the shop's number Th/Fr or trek up here on a Saturday if this isn't enough to start with. I can't post it, I don't think, due to the UA. I've researched Dinos quite a bit and have a lot more info than I care to type up, but here are the cliff notes:

Page 100 is roughly post 2400. The good biology discussion starts somewhere around there and that's the train of thought I'd go with - out compete them with biodiversity.


Your sinus irritation could very likely be due to dinos/palytoxin. I've experienced it when working on affected tanks. Muted hearing as well. It should go without saying to ventilate the room when working with the tank if you think it may be irritating you. Carbon will absorb some of the toxin and should be used and changed frequently. Dinos aren't very toxic until you kill them. Then things snowball quickly if you aren't prepared.

Cease water changes. Replenishing trace elements adds fuel to the fire.

Peroxide 3% at 1 ml / 10 gal if your Dinos migrate to water column at night - water will appear reddish/rust colored. Dose at night. Some anemones and Lysmata sp shrimp don't like h2o2 but it'll be broken down in the water column if dinos are up and swimming around. Since your tank is so sterile, I personally would play with upping the dosage. I have dosed up to 1 ml / 3 gal and only stressed corals temporarily.

UV with VERY slow flow helps with migratory species.

Increasing biodiversity at the bottom of the food web is critically important. Dinos decimate good bacteria by out competing them and doing it quickly. Your tank looks pretty sterile. Is there a rock fuge somewhere? Or better a macro fuge? Slimy plants like Dragons Breath are useful as well.

I remember your strong feelings about vermetid snails or some tube worm a while back. You may have to let that go and add some freshly cured live rock. It will have organisms that will eat Dinos; others that will offer competition. Some Dinos are mixotrophic and can get their essentials from light or nutrients, so limiting nutrients is pointless. Yours likely are as well if they didn't respond to lights out, unless you forgot to cover the tank.

Alternatively, (this requires a scope or calculated risk) save skimmate and keep it similar to tank parameters - temp, aeration and sal. The strongest organisms in that soup will win. If the soup goes clear, likely good guys; If it stays dark, likely bad guys. If it goes clear, you can add it back to the tank (see above parentheses..). A few people in that thread reported great and sudden success by adding cilliates that attack Dinos that they cultured via skimmate. There is video proof as well, but they had a scope...

Gotta run for the night, but happy to help throw ideas at it if this doesn't help.
 
this is all fine - Thanks for the advice Doug. Actually - I think if your still a TBRC sponsor - you may be able to do whatever you want in here - but I dunno, RC can be funny.

I had just gotten to those posts today actually. Love the science of it instead of "this is how I beat whatever I had."

I think turning off the skimmer and UV are doing the trick for me at the moment. I think I see some GHA starting to take hold (I'd much rather have that than these things). I still have the filter socks running though to catch the critters as they go free swimming + the detritus.

As for the tank - I have two mediapure biocubes in the display and some rock rubble pod hotels. Your right though - it's pretty sterile. With the sand gone and no real rock to speak of - I think pods may just get eaten if I try to drop them in there. The copperband just loves picking at everything. At the same time, I'm thinking of removing that PVC/egg crate stuff and switching over to acrylic frag racks. I'm still thinking out how I want to design it though. I wouldn't want to add pods then lose them as I rip the tank apart. I might have to do something sooner rather than later if the algae really starts taking off.

I just... I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering how I got to ULNS with nothing more than a skimmer, filter socks and UV.
 
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