closed loop or tunzes

oach

oach

New member
Hi All,

I am in the early processes of designing a 280 gallon tank (72" x 36" x 24") and I have been going back and forth on a closed loop, tunzes, and/or a combination.

The reason I am leary of the closed loop, using something like a 4-way is the possiblity of leaking, a bulk head, seal in the 4-way, etc going bad and having an unbearable time trying to fix it (I want to return from the closed loop through the bottom of the tank). The closed loop allows me to hide the plumbing and not have a bunch of power heads in the tank.

So has anyone had trouble with a closed loop after it had been up a while? If so, how much of a pita was it too fix?

The powerheads are easy to deal with but make a big footprint in the tank and can be unsightly but if I have a problem with one, it seems like it would be easier to take care of. I believe the tank of the month is currently using all powers head(?).

The third option would be a combination of both which has the benefits and drawbacks of both, lol.

I have been doing a lot of reading in this forum and it seems like most go the combo route. I am just wondering if you can ease my fears of the closed loop and the possible pains of a leak. Also, tell the ins and outs of the different methods and what would be best for an sps tank.

Thank you for your time and input,
Scot
 
I have run a closed loop using Oceans Motions 4 way for 3 years with no issue. The OMs are built very well and I have never had an issue.

Generally speaking, a closed loop is the most efficient and economical way of generating a ton of current. Tunze's, however, are incredibly efficient and move a lot of water.

I am going to try the best of both worlds on my next tank. I am going to run a pair of Tunze Master Recirculating Pump 1073.090. They put out ~2200 GPH ea and use only 1.04 amps!!! That would mean that two of these would be roughly the same flow as a Sequence Barracuda with half the power draw!! I calculate the hefty cost will pay for itself in less than a year with CA power being so expensive!

<img src=http://www.f3images.com/IMD/600/TZ1731/TZ1731_99.jpg>
 
I have Tunzes, and wouldnt go any other way, unless maybe a vortech or two. Tunzes with a Wavysea on the return seems like an awesome combo. I just have to save for the wavysea lol.
 
This is easy.

Look at the plumbing needed for a closed loop. If your reaction is "wow... that is cool!" than do a closed loop.

If your reaction is more like... "how the heck would I fit all that pvc under / over / behind my tank?"... consider tunzes or vortechs.

Cheers.
 
Jflip2002 - How different are the wavy seas from a sea swirl? Is the cost worth the difference?

FishTruck - Like many of you, I am sure, I have played around with my tank in the past and made many changes to the plumbing, so the plumbing doesn't worry me. It is the potential of all the bulkheads possibly leaking - I guess I don't know how realistic that scenario is, as I have never had one leak, but was wondering if anyone else might have (or if they had trouble with a 4-way leaking).
 
I hear ya. My reaction was nausea when I started to draw out the plumbing to make a closed loop like I wanted. Remember sidewinder's tank? I also worry about bulkheads which are not inside overflow boxes. My own paranoia.

As a compromise, I have considered running an OM to my returns from my Sump. With eductors, this would direct 5000 gph of in tank flow. I have not seen others do this though... maybe because there is not enough flow through most sumps to justify?

For now... I play the "hide the tunze" game in my tank. I do like the aquacontroller aquasurf controller for the tunzes. This is fun to play with for different types of flow at different times during the day. If you set them up correctly, you can generate waves with this setup.

If I really had my way, I would use vortechs... but my tank is too thick (1.25 inches).
 
The planning out of the plumbing on the closed loop did take a bit of effort but in the end it worked out well. In my case I had to get creative on the intake. I ended up drilling a hole in the side of the overflow. On the return side I used 2 OM channels for left and right circulation at the top. 2 OM channels go directly to the bottom of the tank and face toward the front glass. This creates an upwelling effect which has proven to work very well! I have some killer results with table corals.

First did mockup in white cheapo PVC as the gray stuff is $$$!

OceansMotionsMockup.jpg


TankEmpty.jpg



TankEmptySide.jpg


FirstWaterTop.jpg


TankPlumbingRear.jpg



TankPlumbingSequence.jpg



SumpShot.jpg
 
Oach, I hear the sea swirls lock up and the motor fries. I was going to go that route, the cheap route. But I figure Id rather buy one wavysea one time. Kinda cool how you can put a Tunze adapter on the bottom of the wavysea, so you can double up on the goodness lol. Tunzes just use so much less electricity, its crazy. Plus no worries of leaking...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12811704#post12811704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AgentSPS
I am going to try the best of both worlds on my next tank. I am going to run a pair of Tunze Master Recirculating Pump 1073.090. They put out ~2200 GPH ea and use only 1.04 amps!!! That would mean that two of these would be roughly the same flow as a Sequence Barracuda with half the power draw!! I calculate the hefty cost will pay for itself in less than a year with CA power being so expensive!

<img src=http://www.f3images.com/IMD/600/TZ1731/TZ1731_99.jpg>
Click to expand...

Are you sure you are talking about a Barracuda? I just measured my Barracuda and it pulls 2.15 amps. That would be about the same amps as two of the Tunze pumps you mention not half. Do you mean that both together use 1.04 amps?

Theron
 
I am building the exact size tank! I already have a tunze stream set up so the decision was easy for me. I kind of like the streams, easy maintenance easy to move around if need be. no pumps or plumbing to leak
 
I've got 2 closed loops with OMs ones a 4way the other is a 8way.. I love the fact the outputs are down low behind rocks. I also really like not having any powerheads and the changing current.. Each section gets blasted with the full force of a large pump every few seconds.. Works great. It would be like moving a Large Tunze all around your tank every 12 seconds or so.

That said the Bulkheads are a risk. I've had one leak before. It was due to user error as in I didnt' support the plumbing on one well enough and I bumped it one day. I also only used Schd 40 bulks. Since I have an equipment room behind my tank. I'm always walking around and moving around all my plumbing. Any time I bump a line or a bulk I have that O $h!t Feeling. I'm fixing to upgrade my 190 to a 300 and I'm really kicking around if I want another closed loop. I've got a couple of Tunze on the way to play with in my 190 and see how bad they look. I think for a Really big tank they aren't as big of an issue.. Since my new tank will be 36"wide I think I might can deal with them lol But I still don't think they can cover the entire tank like my loop can..
 
BTW lol My new tank is almost the exact same size.. 72"x36"x25" Plus two 22"x6"x19"external overflows. With overflows its about 310 gallons :) Just something about saying my new 300 though..
 
I appreciate all the input everyone is giving me. Just making me decision a little harder, lol.

8BALL_99 - where are you getting your tank from? Glass or acrylic?

pdfrogman - same questions please

Another idea that comes from what 8BALL_99 said, how do you make it so the tunzes get low in the water column? I guess I have never seen anyone have a tunze as low as plumbing coming from a closed loop at the bottom of the tank. So Joe (Jflip2002 and pdfrogman too), how do you make sure your tunzes get throughout the water column?

Thank you all,
Scot
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12824704#post12824704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oach
I appreciate all the input everyone is giving me. Just making me decision a little harder, lol.

8BALL_99 - where are you getting your tank from? Glass or acrylic?

pdfrogman - same questions please

Another idea that comes from what 8BALL_99 said, how do you make it so the tunzes get low in the water column? I guess I have never seen anyone have a tunze as low as plumbing coming from a closed loop at the bottom of the tank. So Joe (Jflip2002 and pdfrogman too), how do you make sure your tunzes get throughout the water column?

Thank you all,
Scot
Click to expand...

my tank is going to be 3/4 acrylic I'm building myself
my tunzes now on my 180 are about 4" below water line.
I have 3 all together 2 are controlled one is an 6080 that runs constant across the back of my tank

easy during feeding time just pause the tunzes and feed
the rear head doesn't effect feed enough for me to have to shut it down when I do it's easy enough I have it switched
 
Probably Miracles In Glass. I've got a 190 with External overflow that they built for me about 3 years ago. I've been very happy with it, But I'm wanting a wider tank now. I have checked with several builders though.

Mine is going to have starphire glass on the front and sides, 2 external overflows and Eurobraced around the top.

You can't really put a Tunze down low behind your rocks.. You have to have them somwhat easy to get to for cleaning. Besides they would cause a sandstorm since they have a wide output.. On the other hand with a CL I've got outlets 5" off the bottem with no problem.. Probably 70% of the reason I'm wanting a CL in my new tank is for this reason.. 20% is looks the other 10% is the space PHs take up. It really is a hard choice IMO. Once I get my Tunze and play with them I'll let you know if they convince me or not!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12823903#post12823903 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Theron
Are you sure you are talking about a Barracuda? I just measured my Barracuda and it pulls 2.15 amps. That would be about the same amps as two of the Tunze pumps you mention not half. Do you mean that both together use 1.04 amps?

Theron
Click to expand...


My mistake! I stand corrected. Doing some more research I see it is somewhere between 2.15a - 2.30a depending on how you are using it. But still they are loud and generate a lot of heat compared to the tunze recirc pump. I will still be trying out a dual Tunze recirc pump closed loop on my next setup. I will def keep the baraccuda in storage tho.
 
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