Clown fish diseas or????

[ralph82396]

Good morning all, I feel like my tank is officially crashing but im not sure

I have a 150 with one clown, a blue tang, a fire fish, royal gramma, an LT anemone, corals and some other inverts. I say one clown because I had a pair of 5 year old, that died. So I purchased two new ocellaris had them in QT for 4 weeks and put them into the DT. I know there is ich in my tank and I manage it with gut loaded live food twice a week and selcon soaked frozen food daily just to keep the fish immune system healthy. before anything goes into my tank it is QTd for a minimum of 4 weeks and gets a weekly freshwater bath and one right before the tank transfer. the clowns seemed fine but three days in the DT the bigger of the two showed three white spots resembling ich, I took her out gave her a fw bath and back into the QT tank last night her spots were gone but her skin looked similar to what you would see with brooks but only in blue light with whites on she looked normal she was acting lethargic and refusing food ( she ate this morning and her skin was all cleared up ) so im stumped is this just ich? is it brooks? or something else. I Have had ich in my fish tank for the past 4 years. it came with the gramma after my sister surprised me with it on my birthday and she didn't put it in the QT tank.

sorry I know I went off on a tangent so these are my questions.

- I will post pics when i get home from work but what does this sound like?
- it is near impossible to remove all fish from the 150 and qt them in a 20 gallon so how can I treat the tank with inverts in it if it is more than just ich?
- is it normal with brooks to show symptoms at night and not during the day?
- I cant get formalin where i am so is there any other meds I can try in the event that it is brooks? im currently using copper and FW bath.
- what other invert safe immune system boosters do you recommend
- I couldn't catch the smaller clown but he is eating and acting normal could he not be infected with whatever this is?

if it is brooks i have way more invested in corals than I do in fish and as horrible as it sounds i would rather lose all my fish and go fishless for 6 weeks than lose a single coral or my nem but i want to do everything in my power to avoid any losses all together, I read that brooks kills in between 12 - 24 hours and so far no casualties so I hope im just a fish hypochondriac

 

[JohnL]

Tagging @leebca for his expertise

 

[ralph82396]

Tagging @leebca for his expertise

Thank You, I ordered Ruby Reef Rally as i read that is reef safe and can be directly put into the DT tank, all other fish seem fine

 

[ralph82396]

Mucus seems to be Gone, I think I still see some white dots on fins though

 

[JohnL]

think I still see some white dots on fins

Yes, I think so.

 

[ralph82396]

Yes, I think so.

Hopefully I’m over reacting and it’s just ich, cus that’s easier lol

 

[ralph82396]

Update,

other clown is lethargic but no mucus or white dots. blue tang has been hiding all morning and has two white spots, royal gramma has been hiding more than normal. came out to eat a bit but back into hiding. fire fish has been the only one that seems un affected. i was able to catch the clown and do a FW Dip and into QT but there is no shot i catch the others. ruby reef rally gets here tomorrow so i will dose the tank directly and hope it is as reef safe as it claims. i have a "Nanny cam" on the tank and it just looks barren.

 

[ralph82396]

Update,

other clown is lethargic but no mucus or white dots. blue tang has been hiding all morning and has two white spots, royal gramma has been hiding more than normal. came out to eat a bit but back into hiding. fire fish has been the only one that seems un affected. i was able to catch the clown and do a FW Dip and into QT but there is no shot i catch the others. ruby reef rally gets here tomorrow so i will dose the tank directly and hope it is as reef safe as it claims. i have a "Nanny cam" on the tank and it just looks barren.

original sick clown is eating like a champ and is on 24 hours no FW dip with no mucus or white ich spots left. metro gets here today so i will dose the QT tank with that

 

[JohnL]

Fingers crossed

 

[griss]

I think @leebca or @Dr. Reef would be the best to help with the fish situation.

 

[leebca]

I manage it with gut loaded live food twice a week and selcon soaked frozen food daily just to keep the fish immune system healthy

A basic good approach. Please read through the Fish Nutrition post. Selcon is not the right choice. I know in the past it was marketed as a "vitamin supplement" but it isn't and they don't promote Selcon as such. Selcon contains two vitamins and is almost all fat. Feeding excess fats to our ornamental marine fishes can lead to liver disease and a shortened lifespan.

I'd recommend switching to Vita-Chem and then, only using it once/week. It is the basic diet that is the best foundation to a healthy fish. Feed frozen and freeze-dried foods along with the live foods (excluding adult brine shrimp). Lastly, a UV light in the system will also help (but not remove all parasites).

her a fw bath

Freshwater dips do not cure. They can help a fish that is overcome with certain parasites, but don't rely upon it being a cure. If the fish is ill, move it to a hospital tank for proper treatment.

what does this sound like?

The main tank has parasites, obviously. They haven't been eradicated.

so how can I treat the tank with inverts in it if it is more than just ich?

You need a larger QT so all fish can be moved over. Letting the main tank go fallow at 80F for 7 weeks will take care of Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich) and Brooklynella hostilis (Brook).

is it normal with brooks to show symptoms at night and not during the day?

No.

I cant get formalin where i am

Why is this?

what other invert safe immune system boosters do you recommend

Beta Glucan. See the Fish Nutrition post for details.

could he not be infected with whatever this is?

Not knowing for sure "whatever this is" no way of telling. Some fishes have better resistances. Are the Clownfishes tank bred or wild caught?

I think I still see some white dots on fins though

The fish is tattered. Maybe due to handling, but since it is dispersed in many areas, seems to be nutrition issue, unless it is harassed by another tankmate.

ruby reef rally

As the makers say, "Treats External Parasites, Dinoflagellates, Marine Velvet, Gill Flukes, Clownfish Disease, Bacterial Infections, Tail & Fin Rot, and Stops secondary infections." A product is 'reef safe' in general terms. There is always a chance for an unanticipated problem. This product contains Formalin, so you are going to add Formalin to the main tank -- not recommended by me. It is really best used as a dip at 2X concentration recommendations for 90 minutes with an airstone, but a bathed fish then needs to go into a QT free of parasites.

metro gets here today so i will dose the QT tank with that

What fish are in the QT now?

----------------

I believe the best approach is to catch all fish and move them into a disease/parasite-free hospital tank and let the display tank go fallow.

If you want a more scientific approach to what is in the DT then do eDNA testing such as AquaBiomics offers.

----------------

Sorry for my delayed response. Had personal issues that kept me off line for two days. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask and finally: Welcome to Reef Central.

 

[JohnL]

Had personal issues that kept me off line for two days.

I hope everything is ok now Lee.

 

[ralph82396]

A basic good approach. Please read through the Fish Nutrition post. Selcon is not the right choice. I know in the past it was marketed as a "vitamin supplement" but it isn't and they don't promote Selcon as such. Selcon contains two vitamins and is almost all fat. Feeding excess fats to our ornamental marine fishes can lead to liver disease and a shortened lifespan.

I'd recommend switching to Vita-Chem and then, only using it once/week. It is the basic diet that is the best foundation to a healthy fish. Feed frozen and freeze-dried foods along with the live foods (excluding adult brine shrimp). Lastly, a UV light in the system will also help (but not remove all parasites).

Freshwater dips do not cure. They can help a fish that is overcome with certain parasites, but don't rely upon it being a cure. If the fish is ill, move it to a hospital tank for proper treatment.

The main tank has parasites, obviously. They haven't been eradicated.

You need a larger QT so all fish can be moved over. Letting the main tank go fallow at 80F for 7 weeks will take care of Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich) and Brooklynella hostilis (Brook).

No.

Why is this?

Beta Glucan. See the Fish Nutrition post for details.

Not knowing for sure "whatever this is" no way of telling. Some fishes have better resistances. Are the Clownfishes tank bred or wild caught?

The fish is tattered. Maybe due to handling, but since it is dispersed in many areas, seems to be nutrition issue, unless it is harassed by another tankmate.

As the makers say, "Treats External Parasites, Dinoflagellates, Marine Velvet, Gill Flukes, Clownfish Disease, Bacterial Infections, Tail & Fin Rot, and Stops secondary infections." A product is 'reef safe' in general terms. There is always a chance for an unanticipated problem. This product contains Formalin, so you are going to add Formalin to the main tank -- not recommended by me. It is really best used as a dip at 2X concentration recommendations for 90 minutes with an airstone, but a bathed fish then needs to go into a QT free of parasites.

What fish are in the QT now?

----------------

I believe the best approach is to catch all fish and move them into a disease/parasite-free hospital tank and let the display tank go fallow.

If you want a more scientific approach to what is in the DT then do eDNA testing such as AquaBiomics offers.

----------------

Sorry for my delayed response. Had personal issues that kept me off line for two days. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask and finally: Welcome to Reef Central.

So I Caught as many fish as I could, What is left in the DT is the Blue tang, The Royal Gramma, and the Fire fish.

I have the two clowns and the lawnmower blenny in the QT, followed the ruby reef dosage for three days and am now going with API general cure every 48 hours for 10 days to dose metro. this tank is run off of a canister filter 660gph With a UV, also added another internal tank UV. removing rock to catch other fish isn't an option as they are all encrusted with corals.

So far the fish left in the DT show 0 symptoms of anything, all eating well and full of color and no more white spots or scratching so I'm hoping that this was just the two clownfish that came down with something but will continue to monitor. clown fish were captive bred.

Ich is not something I'm too worried about as another one of my DT has had ich for the past 6 years and it has been managed, the only time there has ever been a second outbreak was during a hurricane when we lost power for two days equaling two outbreaks in 6 years.

My UV rule of thumb is a minimum of 3x the tank water volume passing through the UV light per hour I like to do closer to 4 or 5x water volume. I think that is what has kept Ich at bay in the other tank as I really don't do anything special.

All Fish in the QT tank have begun eating and have gained all their color back, and have almost completely stopped scratching. I don't think it was brook to be honest as there was never any real slime coming off.

I did test my water and salinity jumped to 1.028 since the last time i tested which was a week ago so I added some RO fresh water over the last few days and it has dropped to 1.026 could this have been the cause? or does it just keep sounding like ich. I find it strange that my clowns were the only ones to show any actual symptoms especially having something as sensitive as a blue hippo in the tank

 

[ralph82396]

So I Caught as many fish as I could, What is left in the DT is the Blue tang, The Royal Gramma, and the Fire fish.

I have the two clowns and the lawnmower blenny in the QT, followed the ruby reef dosage for three days and am now going with API general cure every 48 hours for 10 days to dose metro. this tank is run off of a canister filter 660gph With a UV, also added another internal tank UV. removing rock to catch other fish isn't an option as they are all encrusted with corals.

So far the fish left in the DT show 0 symptoms of anything, all eating well and full of color and no scratching so I'm hoping that this was just the two clownfish that came down with something but will continue to monitor. clown fish were captive bred.

Ich is not something I'm too worried about as another one of my DT has had ich for the past 6 years and it has been managed, the only time there has ever been a second outbreak was during a hurricane when we lost power for two days equaling two outbreaks in 6 years.

My UV rule of thumb is a minimum of 3x the tank water volume passing through the UV light per hour I like to do closer to 4 or 5x water volume. I think that is what has kept Ich at bay in the other tank as I really don't do anything special.

All Fish in the QT tank have begun eating and have gained all their color back, and have almost completely stopped scratching. I don't think it was brook to be honest as there was never any real slime coming off.

I did get my water tested and salinity jumped to 1.028 so I added some RO fresh water over the last few days and it has dropped to 1.026 could this have been the cause? or does it just keep sounding like ich. I find it strange that my clowns were the only ones to show any symptoms especially having something as sensitive as a blue hippo in the tank

Only concerning thing slightly with the blue tang is she’s been hiding for over 24 hours after I went in to catch all the fish I know she’s okay because she peeks her little head out of her hiding spot and when she sees me hides again, the little sucker doesn’t know I have a fish cam in the tank tho so I know she’s good lol

Thank you for your input and taking the time to help I hope all is well

 

[leebca]

I did test my water and salinity jumped to 1.028 since the last time i tested which was a week ago so I added some RO fresh water over the last few days and it has dropped to 1.026 could this have been the cause?

Higher salinity makes the fish work harder to get rid of salt internally. Fish have to 'swallow water' then get rid of the salt, to 'make freshwater' for internal metabolism. So a higher salinity is stressful. By itself, it doesn't cause a disease, but since the fish is stressed, the fish becomes more susceptible to parasites and bacteria.

Your DT can 'live' without removing Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich) but your fish will face infection whenever a stressor comes up. Newly added fish may not have adequate resistance and can cause an outbreak.

You use RO water? not RODI water?

With me, all is well. Thank you.

 

[ralph82396]

Higher salinity makes the fish work harder to get rid of salt internally. Fish have to 'swallow water' then get rid of the salt, to 'make freshwater' for internal metabolism. So a higher salinity is stressful. By itself, it doesn't cause a disease, but since the fish is stressed, the fish becomes more susceptible to parasites and bacteria.

Your DT can 'live' without removing Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich) but your fish will face infection whenever a stressor comes up. Newly added fish may not have adequate resistance and can cause an outbreak.

You use RO water? not RODI water?

With me, all is well. Thank you.

I Use RO water just because the well on the farm goes through an RO system before it gets to the animals and then I add water conditioner for safe measure, I am however looking into getting an RODI system for the reef tanks, predator tanks axolotls koi pond etc.. For salt water living in south Florida is easy so I have never in ten years mixed my own water (unless filling a tank for the first time to cycle and then I proceed to do changes with ocean water) , my grandparents have a house in the keys so I go down there monthly and stock up on salt water straight from the ocean and use that for weekly 10% water changes.

 

[leebca]

the well on the farm

Some thoughts: The quality of well water can vary from marginally okay to really bad. Well water quality may change over time -- so it is a moving unknown. An RO unit typically removes about 90% of the incoming water's impurity. What remains can range from problematic in a fish only aquarium to unacceptable in a reef aquarium. Is your drinking water from a well?

salt water straight from the ocean

The quality of this salt water has its problems. Too close to land and land rain run-off carries contaminants. Too close to land and human pollution may contribute to bad water quality.

Many public and private coastal aquariums use ocean water -- usually collected through plumbing, at least 5 miles from the coast.

Using RODI is best, but I would have the farm's RO water tested if you could. Do you know the RO's total dissolved solids (TDS) at least?

 

[ralph82396]

Some thoughts: The quality of well water can vary from marginally okay to really bad. Well water quality may change over time -- so it is a moving unknown. An RO unit typically removes about 90% of the incoming water's impurity. What remains can range from problematic in a fish only aquarium to unacceptable in a reef aquarium. Is your drinking water from a well?

The quality of this salt water has its problems. Too close to land and land rain run-off carries contaminants. Too close to land and human pollution may contribute to bad water quality.

Many public and private coastal aquariums use ocean water -- usually collected through plumbing, at least 5 miles from the coast.

Using RODI is best, but I would have the farm's RO water tested if you could. Do you know the RO's total dissolved solids (TDS) at least?

My drinking water is also well water but run through another RO system TDS readings are 0ppm although I have had the rare reading as high as 2ppm usually after a heavy storm so my water is pretty clean, the entire state sits on an aquifer some parts cleaner than others, the saltwater I collect sit in a 450 gallon tub in the garage with its own filtration system when its not being used including oil skimmers, so far with that I haven't had a problem with pollutants and my corals are doing great. my LT anemone (my first one which had me freaked out at the beginning) is now fully open at about 18 inches and my carpet is about 20 inches. we have a gopher tortoise easement on the property so our water as well as soil and grass is tested by the state regularly.

 

[leebca]

That is good news.

I'm surprised the RO water tests 0.0 TDS. If corals are doing well, it doesn't seem like you need a DI unit.

 

[ralph82396]

That is good news.

I'm surprised the RO water tests 0.0 TDS. If corals are doing well, it doesn't seem like you need a DI unit.

I think I'll probably get one anyways just in case because we have been getting more and more rain over the years and that essentially adds pollutants to the well water for a period of time and if it keeps raining the way it has this year my well water will probably get dirtier.