Clown Opinion

[herpchat]

There is nothing wrong with discussions on this topic.

I want clowns because clowns are cool. I do believe in keeping species pure, I guess I am a fishy racist or speciesist or something like that.

Travis did not really get the tour of my place because he had to leave. In one of my 30s is the result of an experiment. The fish are 100% Betta smaragdina but they were the result of a wild blue Udon morph (where only males are caught, A blue female has never been recovered from the wild) x a normal green "guitar" female. (Guitar smaragdina in the wild have long fins but nothing like domestic splendens). The result of the cross was to determing the genetics of the blue gene. All of the fry came out blue and there were 35 males to 5 females. (this in itself is quite skewed but has happened in various splendens crosses). Now I have spawned the F1 to determine what comes back out. In splendens blue is a codominant gene, but in smaragdina it appears to be dominant. It could also be a double factor thing since the blue color is not as intense as it was in the parent.

Now as to gains in husbandry, since I have taken on this project we have 3 methods of artificially incubating mouthbrooder fry.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8227900#post8227900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by herpchat
If the fish are sold as hybrids and people know that is one thing, when you try to pass things off as a species that is where I draw the line.

I think this is what sums the whole thing up on every issue presented here.

Commercial - Found to be unethical to push hybrids off as pure breds. Heck, the same thing happens in other animals such as horses, dogs, cattle, etc. Why would it be different for a fish breeder or the average aquarist?
Private (Fun) - Not much of a problem if gaining experience
Private (Programs/Research) - Hybrids are a huge problem because of the need of pure bred sources. OR Hybrids are fine when being studied.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8228723#post8228723 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dugg
Thanks for that last link Travis. I just finished all 24 pages. That was some cool stuff. I just wish i had seen that when i could have gotten a pair.

No problem. I've been following it since the first post. There are a few other threads out there like that. You should also look around the ORA website. They have a Pseudochromis Fridimani and Pseudochromis Sankeyi cross. It's really interesting, but I don't see why they did it beyond potential profit. But then again, I don't think anyone has ever crossbred Pseudochromis in captivity, so it could have been a valuable research chance.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8229289#post8229289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dugg
I didn't mean to turn this into a big discussion on hybridizing or anything. I was just wondering why anyone would worry about cross breading two fish that are so closely related that they are determined by one more dorsel fin then the next lol. I didn't realize that you actually had a purpose in breeding them, other then to try and raise fry for fun.

While the purpose for Gerald's need for pure bred stock is simply for his Breeder's Award Program, I think the discussion of hybridization was very informative and enlightening. It was nice to have a calm person on each end of the issue without flames, locks, or bans But in short, I believe the point comes down to hybridization is fine within reason. Chimeras might be something that would be frowned upon though.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8229338#post8229338 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by herpchat
Travis did not really get the tour of my place because he had to leave.

Unfortunately, yes. I would have loved to have spent a little longer there and attend the OKAA meeting. I would like to see how things are done in your neck of the woods. His setups are a good site to see. It might not look like much to the naked eye, but understanding how it's set up is another story. Gerald, have any far shots of your setups?

 

[herpchat]

Since this topic of of hybrids I have been wondering if a maroon clown could cross with an occelaris.

As I told my OKAA people I do things cheaply and efficiently. My hoods cost me a few dollars each. The vast majority of my tanks are run off sponge filters. The sponge filters are then run off two whitewater linear pumps. Yeah the setup is quite ghetto but I can run a lot of fish through it.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8230872#post8230872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by herpchat
Since this topic of of hybrids I have been wondering if a maroon clown could cross with an occelaris.

It might be possible. It would be a chimera since they are from two different genera though. Amphiprion ocellaris and Premnas biaculeatus

 

[herpchat]

A number of cross genera crosses have produced fertile offspring as well, example Elaphae x Lampropeltis (Rat Snakes x Kingsnakes) and Elaphae x Pituophus (Rat Snakes x Bull Snakes).

Commercial Rat x King crossings are called Jungle Corns and are quite highly variable in their patterns.

 

[captbunzo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8230872#post8230872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by herpchat
Since this topic of of hybrids I have been wondering if a maroon clown could cross with an occelaris.

Yep - just a Reef Central search away -

Here are some more threads:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=936446&highlight=clownfish+hybrid
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=663178&highlight=Cocoa+Clown

 

[herpchat]

It is a pretty fish, I will give him that.

 

[dugg]

I wonder if fish would run into the growth inhibitor gene problem that was found when crossing lions and tigers? Imaging a goldstripe maroon the size of a tuna lol. That would be the most feersome fish in the ocean.

 

[herpchat]

Hey Dugg and Travis;

Here is a clown pic for you to identify

http://www.iri-us.com/images/places/baltimore/pics/Clown Fish2.jpg

 

[dugg]

That looks like a Bulbusredus Afroclown of the plasticscious family to me. He is most happy when he is perched on his coral post at Six Flags America in Baltimore lol.

 

[herpchat]

Spine count complete;

Suspected perculas 9 spines.

suspected occelaris 10 spines.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Interesting. Was the one in the foreground of the picture the A. percula? I would guess that the suspected A. ocellaris is actually an A. ocellaris.

 

[herpchat]

The one in the forground or bottom was percula, the other is occelaris