Coast to Coast Overflow or Pensinula Style?

[Ted_C]

I was going to avoid drilling the tank - especially the bottom. However, I'm debating with myself regarding a closed loop + return on the bottom + MP60's MP40's mid water column.

What I like is the idea of being able to jet water with eductors on the bottom of the tank - keeping all the detritus suspended for export by the MP60's and MP40's Mid water column to be exported by filter socks / protein skimming. I'd really like to get a set-up like Hendrick has in his shop (Paradise Reef) - with the plumbing going through diverters (these are just sprinkler heads I beleive) to get a spinning return.

What is discourging me: I am working alone. It'll be hard to get everything measurd and aligned right with such a large tank. The risk of leaks on the bottom of the tank. If something goes wrong there - your draining all gallons onto your floor.

The biggest risk that discourges me from returns on the bottom is the back siphon / check valve requirement. Returns up and over mean you'll only back siphon the amount to your siphon break. Returns on the bottom (and a failing check valve) means you'll back siphon 300 gallons into the sump (and the floor).

 

[ReefKeeper64]

Ted, I have a reef savvy closed loop and it can probably give you a few good ideas. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2312134

(This thread shows more closed loop stuff http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2255249)

In past tanks, I never had bulkheads leak except for one time where I had a few drops leak and I retightened the buikhead and was done. The risk of an all out flood isn't likely. A small slow leak is more of a realistic risk over years. If you use high pressure rated schedule 80 bulkheads, the risk is reduced even further. That said, I went through the same dilemma you are having of deciding to have 5 holes drilled into the bottom of a brand new tank.

My plan B idea would have worked as a show caliber closed loop with no holes in the bottom but my tank was too small to make it look right IMO. You are building a much larger tank and this might be for you. My plan B idea was taken from David Saxby's tank in England. The design incorporates a simple design where 4 returns are run up the back side of the tank, over and into the tank, and then the pvc is run to various places along the bottom of the tank. You cover the pvc along the bottom with sand. You cover the pvc running down the back side with an external weir that is drilled on the side. Saxby just did a cosmetic weir inside so my idea provides a more hidden look but either would work great and would provide for tsunami caliber water flow without any viewable plumbing or holes.

 

[Ted_C]

Yea - I saw your post in the "Are Closed Loops old School" thread. Thanks for sharing - I'll check out your build and maybe ask to come over to see your operation and meet you. Thanks for Sharing!

So my normal sump design might need some re-thinking. If I have three external pumps under the tank, that's going to take up quite a bit of real estate. Add to that my external skimmer and the desire to keep my 3 gallon dosing jugs down there and I think I'm over my 72" limit. I was thinking of a 24x48x16 sump again - I might have to shorten it.

 

[aguila88psi]

Use a manifold with one external with each output on a valve instead of three seperate pumps. Even better would be to add an oceansmotions magnetic water diverter/ wave maker, that would be slick.

 

[anbosu]

I'm sure there are a lot of OM that work perfectly for years, but it seems like I constantly see people having issues with them.

 

[BlueCoast]

First well will be a filter sock well. I'm trying to think of a way where the overflow pipes dont need to go directly into the socks (so I can remove socks without needing to remove piping and still keep piping outlets underwater). maybe a 5" wide box to take the overflows and that will fill and overflow into another 5" wide box which holds my filter socks and empties at the bottom into a refugium section (not really a refugium, more like an algae scrubber with exportable macroalgae) then a bubble trap to my return / probe section. I will of course design it with a few extra inches so if the filter socks clog up - it wont overflow my sump.

.

http://imgur.com/a/7qJk0

Just came across this and thought of this thread. It is pretty much what you described with an sealed area for the return lines that spills into the socks.

 

[Ted_C]

Yes sir - that is exactly what I was thinking for the sock inlet. The only changes I would make are drop the inlets and it's wall down by three inches so that if the socks clogged - the water would just overflow into the skimmer section.

My only concern with that design is that little area where the overflows come in - if you dont have enough flow to keep everything turbulent - it'll become a detritus trap.

I can't fit 45x45 under the tank - so I'll design a new one thats slimmer and supports an external skimmer.

It never occured to me to have the water flowing backwards like that.

Next Challenge:
If Well 1 is Drains + Filter Sock
Well 2 is my refugium / algae holding / growing area (with Pods?)
Well 3 is my return with manifold for Reactors / Skimmers.

How would you keep pods in the refugium and keep them from going to your reactors but allow them to migrate up to your display tank?

 

[Ted_C]

It also looks like he used angle iron and just bolted his stand together. Clever. I wonder how safe angle iron is compared to tubular iron for a tank like that.

 

[bhsgk]

http://imgur.com/a/7qJk0

Just came across this and thought of this thread. It is pretty much what you described with an sealed area for the return lines that spills into the socks.

you didnt by chance see that on reddit did you? i just saw that a few minutes ago.

 

[Ted_C]

I just figured out - I can't support a 36" wide tank if I want a steel stand - while I could flip the tank to the 30" side to get it through the door - I can't fit the pre-fabbed stand to support the 36" tank through my door. I would need to build the stand in the house.

Considering I live in an apartment (1/2 house) that I'll eventually move out of - I'd like to be able to move the stand out without nearing to tear the whole thing apart to get it through the door.

I figure I could support a 32" wide tank at the most with the stand requirements.

 

[BlueCoast]

you didnt by chance see that on reddit did you? i just saw that a few minutes ago.

reddit... what's that I browse a couple subs there, /r/reeftank being one of them. The frontpage crap gets old, but find some good subs and there is a trove of information.

 

[BlueCoast]

I just figured out - I can't support a 36" wide tank if I want a steel stand - while I could flip the tank to the 30" side to get it through the door - I can't fit the pre-fabbed stand to support the 36" tank through my door. I would need to build the stand in the house.

Considering I live in an apartment (1/2 house) that I'll eventually move out of - I'd like to be able to move the stand out without nearing to tear the whole thing apart to get it through the door.

I figure I could support a 32" wide tank at the most with the stand requirements.

make sure to take into account turning corners and then getting through doorways, that almost burned me.

I seem to recall someone having their steel stand built in 2 sections that bolted together allowing them to get it in the door. Don't give up on that 36" yet!

 

[Ted_C]

No corners to worry about - but thanks for the tip. I'll search and see what I can find for assembling steel stands - but if you find something - please let me know.

I've been keeping my eyes on the large reef tank threads on this forum and another - getting great ideas.

Wayne (Newbie Aquarist) has the sump I was thinking of too

I was reading SonicBoom's thread too.

And Chris's (ReefKeeper64) build with the closed loop as well

 

[Ted_C]

make sure to take into account turning corners and then getting through doorways, that almost burned me.

I seem to recall someone having their steel stand built in 2 sections that bolted together allowing them to get it in the door. Don't give up on that 36" yet!

Found only one example - Bricky's Build post with the stand in sections: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10768239&postcount=15

So for 72" I can create three 24 inch sections that'll fit through my doors then bolt them together once inside.

 

[Ali :D]

Ted, if that's the design of sump you are going with then it's great, just turn the bubble trap upside down so that the fist and last baffle are sealed on the bottom of the sump and the last one is slightly smaller than the first by about a half inch so that it surface skims the skimmer section to avoid a film building up on the surface of the water.

 

[kory1006]

If you go with a full syphon plumbing setup there will be no bubble from the display tank in the sump. Your only form of bubbles will come from your skimmer output.

 

[Ted_C]

I just had an idea about this next build I was thinking of...


The struggle I have with setting up a peninsula tank is getting good flow from the return (and possibly also through a closed loop system).

I would like to try to keep the powerheads out of the requirements if I can. On a peninsula - even while minimal with MP40's or MP60's - may still be a bit of an eyesore.

So I was thinking today - how do I get 4 return outlets back into the display without running them along a long windowed wall?

Set it up like Coral Corral's big display.

They have pretty much a rectangular PVC pipe running all around the top of their display with 4 sea-swirls outputs in each corner. The tank is sooo high that you don't see the mechanics while looking into the tank. Even better - it can be hid by a canopy.

So I can run one pipe up into the canopy that ties into this rectangular PVC pipe and maintain the aesthetics of a peninsula system....

On other news - it appears I may have found a new job that will allow me to continue living whereever I want (which just so happens to be pinellas county), work from home and with a bit of travel required (gone for maybe a week out fo the month).

So my next build may be a few months off.

edit:
Sort of like this is what I'm thinking - but the pipes will be well above the water's surface - inside the canopy -

[/QUOTE]

 

[anbosu]

Congrats on the new job!

I think that would be a great workaround for a peninsula style tank.

You could also try to set up a gyre flow, although I think this solution is far simpler.