color morphs

[johnanddawn]

trying to start an intelligent conversation here - so please keep your input as such
as you can tell from my post count i'm mostly just a browser but all these "please id" questions, color morph name games, the outragous prices, and the threads about creating new morphs and such got me thinking -

OK then, heres the question for you all - obviously species breed true (with some genetic variation in individuals, if sexual repro were to occur in a tank) and asexual repro causes genetically identical individuals ....???? however:
isn't it the zoaxanthellae (as well as other pigments) that actually causes the color morph of a coral and thats why under different lights corals look different? each tank has conditions that favor the growth of certain zoaxanthellae and that is what determines the color we see - is the same colony with different symbiotics the same??? this is why i have a problem with this whole name game stuff. so how much is nature (genetics) and how much is nurture (tank params)

 

[aSixyReef]

xzooanthallae help form is a protective coloration that keeps the animal from being burned by UV rays. The color variotion wouldn't change with this internally because you changed the lighting. Given the exact same environmental conditions, a clone should look the same in every way. (This can also vary on HOW youre looking at the animal -head on, from an angle, top down, etc).

If the clone is kept in different conditions, albeit water chemisty, lighting, anything, it will look different.

Think of xzooanthallae as a way the animal suntans. using people as an example, if you had a clone - identical twin- and were exposed to the same exact conditions outside, you would both tan exactly the same.

Zoanthid species in general (excluding protopalythoa and palythoa which may or may not be) are found in extremely shallow water.
They then are brightly colored to protect themselves from the UV radition that of which would otherwise kill the life-giving xzooanthale.

remember too that there is significant varition between how people perceive colors. what looks blue to one person may look violet to another.

HTH

 

[Reef Junkie]

It's tough to say what's nature and what's nurture.

I believe that a lot of extremely colorful corals start out with decent coloration to begin with.

Sometimes, they get less colorful over time. Sometimes the ugliest corals can surprise you, but most corals will change over time in an establishd reef tank that is well cared for.

The xoozanthellae will develop flourescing pigments as time goes on. This will alter the color of the xoozanthellae and give us those bright yellows and reds we're seeing a lot of lately.

Dana Riddle wrote this a while back and I believe it hold true for zoanthids as well. I am still trying to find a complete answer to this.

Alkalinity
We offered this information and were a bit surprised at the debate these comments generated. This is the background - we have 10 - 1,500 gallon systems in our facility; four of these house stony corals. e allowed the alkalinity to drop in these systems to that of natural seawater (~ 7 dKH). We noted that many of these corals' colors faded during this period.

Two commercially available buffers (Inland Seas and Warner Marine Research) were used to quickly raise alkalinity levels to 10 dKH. In some cases, the pigmentation intensified overnight. Other colors returned over a period of days. No other system parameters were altered. This procedure was performed in two other systems with the same results.

We are not sure why the colors return - is the increased bicarbonate a catalyst for increased photosynthesis? Or is the alkalinity shift a stressor to the corals and they lose (or alter) their zooxanthellae and the pigments (which are below the zooxanthellae "layer") become apparent. Testing is underway to determine the effect of alkalinity on zooxanthellae density/size and, with any luck, photodocumentation will be presented at the September MACNA X in Los Angeles, California.

 

[enitnelaVeyaF]

considering Riddle is speaking of scelaratinian corals, i dont know how valid that is in reference to soft corals.

 

[Reef Junkie]

I know, I know... But if they hold the same or similar xoozanthellae, why wouldn't it apply?

Like others, I have been searching for an answer to this question. I haven't found any rock solid evidence yet.

Speaking of coral changes, I just posted on another thread here that is on the same topic, almost.

I picked up some Paly's that were in a low alk tank and they changed significantly, albeit over a long period of time.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=916650

 

[johnanddawn]

ok i'll start with a set of pics as "evidence" to my question:
here are three shots of zoas a couple months apart of most important in this discussion are the zoas 2nd from the left and on the far right with the yellow/green skirts orange/yellow mouths note in the first shot they do not look like the same zoa at all but in the second and third they are nearly identical:

at introduction to this tank - note the color of the skirt and the mouth on the zoa 2nd from the left and on the far right

now a couple months later note the skirts and mouths and rims of the two zoas - 2nd left and far right are they still different??
top down

same view as first pic

 

[Reef Junkie]

First off, WOW! That is purty!

Second, yes, they are the same imo.
Be careful combining zoas on a rock like that.
One of those colony's is going to become the dominant one and over grow the rest. My guess, it'll be the ones to the far left.

The two similar colony's are a common, but really nice color morph. They grow in spurts and by leaps and bounds when they do. Consider removing the other 3 colony's on that rock and let them dominate it.

Again, excellent picture.