Concerned - 10 g Package dying?

[hdtran]

I'm not a moderator, but:

Koj11, unless you've got specific advice (e.g. lower the temperature, increase flow rate, etc.), butt out. If you do have advice, provide a source (e.g. I tried it on my tank, and it worked, or I read it in Moe's book, or ...)

SPC, same to you.

You've each made points as to how you think the other person's advice is wrong (which is fine), but now, you're just arguing with each other, and no longer giving advice to Omchris. The two of you are turning this forum from a friendly support group into something else.

Omchris, go look for some more biozyme (that brown powder you stirred into the tank with the first part of the package). Can't hurt, could help. Since you're in Tampa, you could just visit TBS Saturday; I'm sure they've got some (if not biozyme, a similar product). You can look up biozyme on the web if you want, it's a mixture of nitrifying bacteria and enzymes that's supposed to help jumpstart the nitrogen cycle. I've used it myself, and have never had nitrogen-related problems, but I can't say whether to attribute it to biozyme, or to my light bioload.

Also, try finding some Amquel or Ammolock at a LFS. It'll likely get you a false reading on your ammonia test, but will also convert ammonia to a slightly less toxic form.

 

[koj11]

Hdtran, you're right about the arguing part. If you check back at the beginning of this nonsense, you'll see I was only trying to help omchris with some encouraging words and advice while he was doing his best to keep his tank afloat. If anybody thinks his tank his doomed, they are completely wrong in my opinion. Anyways, you'll see that a bunch of people jumped all over me because I expressed my opinion of how tbs was handling him. This was unprovoked and uncalled for. You'll also see how many times I was misquoted and had my words twisted around. I didn't start it, he was the aggressor to me. I will be the one to finish it, however. I have no doubt spc will have some snappy retort (but it won't be finding what I challenged him to find because it doesn't exist).

Aside from that, you say I need to offer advice...I did that as well. I told him he is doing what he needs to be doing. His multiple water changes is the single best thing he can be doing for his tank right now.

 

[hdtran]

SPC,

My advice, for what it's worth, don't respond to Koj11 (see my response to Koj11 below).

Koj11, again, FWIW, edit your last post, as your last post did not provide any new advice to Omchris. No need to justify yourself. (Or think of it as a mandatory 24 hr cooling off period before responding).

 

[koj11]

I missed the new advice in that last post of yours as well hdtran. You do realize you're doing the exact thing you're chastizing me for doing, right? What foolishness. I guess I have to put two names on the ignore list now instead of just one. God help anyone else whose opinion you don't agree with.

 

[delta]

omchris
how are things going tody?

 

[omchris]

Delta,

Well not so good actually. I am just about ready to give up. I am away from home for about 12 hrs everyday. I change out water in the morning to bring it down as low as I can, but by the time I get home in the evening it has skyrocketed again. I usually do multiple water changes at night. When I get home I usually do a 50% water change which lowers the ammonia and I wait for about 30 mins, test and the ammonia has usually gone up again. I repeat this process until I get it to below 1 ppm, but of course by morning it has gone way up again. I cannot manage the multiple water changes in the morning, so I just do one big one. I also add biozyme and amquel before I go to bed at night and before I leave for work in the morning.

I appreciated all the encouragement offered, but it seems that the doomsayers were right as everything has spiraled out of control and the rock and sand is pretty much lifeless.

I think that my mistake was letting the rock sit out for the 20 mins when I first brought the rock home. I think that in such a small tank whatever died quickly spiraled the tank out of control. I also suspect that my first batch of water had traces of ammonia in it. I have since checked every batch I make before I add the salt, after I add the salt, and before I make every water change.

At this point I think I have two options, and please correct me if I am wrong or offer any other possible suggestions.

I am not giving up though!!!!!

I can either allow it to continue cycle then add the second batch of rocks and buy some more live sand. Or I can take the tank down and start over. I can purchase live sand and some more rock and this time put the rock directly into the tank and deal with hitchhikers at a later time. I am certainly open to suggestions and advice.

By the way my nitrite is still at 0 ppm, so I know I am still a ways of from cycling.

 

[liverock]

Low tide, high tide

Low tide, high tide

Remember reefs are exposed for hours as the tide changes.....20 min on a tarp will do no harm.......in fact we shipped pur rock dry for about 15 years.

The problem is water quality.....

Ditch what you have, we will reship you....

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

 

[koj11]

Kudos on not giving up! No need to ditch your sand, as whichever rock you end up using will seed your sand. I think you would be fine keeping what you have, as others have said the second shipment would have more life anyways, but if tbs is going to give you all new rock, that's the option I would choose. Maybe you could take a day off from work, and schedule it to arrive on that friday, so you have a 3 day weekend to really stay on top of it during the first few days. Do you have a skimmer or any other means of filtration running?

 

[we_want_Nemo]

No need to ditch your sand, as whichever rock you end up using will seed your sand.

Ok, I've followed this thread now for a while, and I just have to say something.

Richard just told Omchris to dump everything - HE WILL RESHIP - so why do you tell him not to do it????????????

Richard is very proud of his product and quote "WE LET NOBODY FAIL"

I don't know if any of you have read my lenghty thread a couple days ago, but almost the same thing happend to me (at least the same ending) and Richard fixed the problem!!!!!!!!

Omchris, I think you will be a happy, happy TBS customer too.
You'll receive a new shipment and you'll start from scratch (you already practiced patience - right???? )
and your tank will just be as alive and colorful as can be (check out my gallery!)

Thanks Richard, for being an excellent vendor to do business with.

good luck Omchris with your tank
Manuela

 

[omchris]

Let me bore you all with a little story about why I even attempted to try a reef tank. I was born on the coast of the Caribbean Sea. As a child I spent many weekends and holidays on one of our tiny islands where I can stand on the shore and see the waves breaking over the reef and literally a 5 min boat ride takes me to the reef. I have snorkeled there and I have SCUBA dived there. I know the importance of the reef to my country and my people and the importance of preserving that vital piece of our heritage and our land. But I miss home a lot and I wanted at least a slice of that paradise. However I am restricted by cost and although setting up a 10 g is by no stretch of the imagination cheap, it is what I opted for and was willing to dedicate the time and effort to. Because I am all for preserving any natural reef I did some research in aquaculture rock. I was very impressed with the efforts TBS made advance the aquaculture industry, and of course, they are right here in Tampa so why not go and select my own rock. I had already decided that any corals I "eventually" add will be cultured, and any fish (1 maybe 2) will have to be tank bred.

Having said all that. I repeat, I have appreciated all the advice and encouragement. I was extremely satisfied with my purchase from TBS. I was disappointed in the outcome, but that was nobody's fault but my own for a combination of things.

Even though TBS had no control over what I did with the rock and sand once I got it home, they have graciously agreed to replace both for me. I think that is excellent customer service!!!!

I hope this experince has helped those who are discouraged with their first attempt. I also hope that you know why you want to buy TBS rock when you buy it so that you understand what you are getting into. For those of you thinking about buying TBS rock know that you have someone who stands behind their product.

This sounds like an plug for TBS, but I am just expressing my sincere opinion. My wife suggested that we just start over and buy the first half again from TBS because we were that happy with their rock. I am glad to report that we can get a fresh start.

Please, wish us luck.

I will now clean my tank, get everything ready for next week and make a second attempt again. I will update again when I do. I hope that you will all read again to see what how my second attemp is coming.

Thanks,
Omar

 

[hdtran]

Omchris,

Good for you!

If you clean out your existing tank, be sure to just 'rinse' it with water, nothing else. No cleaning products whatsoever. When I had a FOwLR tank, well after it was stable, I had a damsel mysteriously die every other week. Turns out they always died after the day after we had a cleaning service do the vacuuming/dusting/(and room air freshening...). So be careful with the household products out there.

Dexter's advice is pretty good (run the cycle in a 20g rubbermaid container). If you want to try that, go ahead & put your sand into your 10g nano, and the rocks in the 20g rubbermaid. You'll need an extra powerhead to keep circulation going in your 20g rubbermaid container (less than $10 at Lowe's or Home Depot).

You might try just bringing a 20g rubbermaid (or maybe a few 5g buckets) to TBS to pick up your 'first half.' Check with them as to the best way to transport in a car without using the big plastic bags.

 

[omchris]

Thanks,

That sounds like a really good plan. Question though. Once the rock cycles, do I then just move it over to the tank? Will the sand also be cycling at the same time? Not exactly sure how this should work even though I see the logic of the larger volume of water helping the water params be more stable.

 

[we_want_Nemo]

Good luck



Manuela

 

[SPC]

Good grief. This is once again something I didn't say. You took a quote of mine and applied it to something I wasn't talking about. When I said "too funny" I was talking about your methods of quoting me (which you gave some more sparkling examples of), not killing something as you have suggested above. Your spinning of what I say to try and make it suit your means doesn't fool me or anyone else. How about this... let's have us a little bet. You say I find killing live rock funny. I bet you can't find anywhere where I have actually said such a ridiculous thing. Now I'm not talking about taking some out of context thing like you have been doing. Find an actual quote of me saying that. I've got $100 that says you can't. It's time, as they say, to put your money where your mouth is. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well first of all koj11, I'm not about to answer any of your questions with specifics until you go back and answer some of mine that you seem to have ignored. Second, it is very clear to everyone (except you apparently), that your posts have indicated that everyone who believes that high ammonia levels will kill the life on aquacultured rock is, well......chicken littles? This being the case, then it is quite evident that you find that your method "sounds like a normal cycle to me" is the method one should employ with aquacultured rock, and that those who disagree with you are "too funny" in your opinion. Although it has been explained to you many times in this thread why the method that you advocate will have serious repercussions for the aquacultured rock, you continue to insist that it won't, and even go to great lengths to try and show that others are "chicken littles" and "too funny" and....

Now, lets try and get back on track here, why is it that you feel an ammonia level off the charts is just part of a normal cycle?

What facts can you share with us (chicken littles) that shows a high ammonia level will not kill animal life on aquacultured rock?
Steve

 

[SPC]

SPC, same to you.

You've each made points as to how you think the other person's advice is wrong (which is fine), but now, you're just arguing with each other, and no longer giving advice to Omchris. The two of you are turning this forum from a friendly support group into something else.

I'm sorry you feel that way, hdtran, but like with most things in life we all see things a little different. My support on this thread has been to try and debunk the poor advice given by koj11 so other newbees don't mistake this for sound advice.

Now, you may not like the manner in which I have lent my support, and this is just fine, but might I suggest that if you don't care to read my posts that you simply ignore them, or better yet, put me on your ignore list.
Steve

 

[gregt]

While I think it may be more than a little rude to correct a vendor trying to help a customer in their own forum about their own product, I think it's best if everyone take a few steps back and just let it go.

FWIW, I have cycled TBS rock in a 10 gallon tank many times by doing near 100% water changes with excellent results.

Omar, hang in there.

 

[delta]

omchris
Although you have informed us of your water changes and condition of your LR & LS we have no knowlege of your system as a whole. It may infact be benificial to share a little more info on your system so maybe we can see something else that is contributing to your problem.

i.e
- top off and replacement- water make up tap water? RO RO\DI?
- Lighting cycle- type, time running each day
- do yo have a protien skimmer? running at its best? skimmate dry,wet or no skimmate at all?
- additional filtration to LR & LS ?
- water movement power head, filters etc.

Just trying to see if there are any other factors we are missing here

As another note Richard that is definately standing behind your product, you cannot ask for any better customer service than that!!!

 

[koj11]

.

Well first of all koj11, I'm not about to answer any of your questions [/B][/QUOTE]


Yeah, that's what I thought.


:lmao:


Ignored and unsubscribed from your substanceless lies.

 

[gregt]

koj11,

I think it's best if everyone take a few steps back and just let it go.

I don't think you understood my post. It's not really a request, I was just being polite.

 

[dave2184]

Omar, As stated earlier hang in there and good luck.

I know how discouraging it can get been there myself when i got laid off and almost threw in the towel, but the majority of people on here help in these times. I got a lot of ideas for cheap food and additive alternatives and ways of doing things to get me by till i got back on my feet. I have seen others give corals to those who lost all there livestock during the blackout and even had a fellow RC member donate a few frags to my system after i got it up and running again after my tank split a seam whille my wife and i were at work.

You have come to the right place for help and answers. Just remember some people take things to the extreme so you must take some stuff with a grain of salt. Gather a large group of opinions and go with what you feel is best for you and your livestock.

BTW when you pose a question you may want to get in the habit of listing water peramiters, tank size, livestock,and equipment being used along with any additives and there usage as this is not an exact science and will help others to better understand whats going on and allow them to give more accurate advice. Again Good Luck -Dave-