Constant Water Change System w/out a sump

[Weyrman]

I have to admit I haven't been as diligent as I should be regarding water changes. That's probably part of my water parameters issue. I travel a lot and that gets in the way of many water changes.

To help out I decided to put in a Constant Water Change System. I'm almost finished with the installation on my 150 DT. It's been running for 24 hours now. I have to tie up some of the lines to make it look pretty and then I'm done. I'll do some pictures once that's completed. But I have to say. Wow. Only 24 hours and I feel a wave of relief that I don't need to worry so much about getting the water changes done!

I'm starting out with 10 gallons a day and will continue that for a week or so. Then, based on where water parameters are, I'll ramp down to 5 gpd for another week or so. My target, once near perfect water parameters are reached, is to perhaps gradually ramp down to 2 gpd or about 10% weekly. We'll see if that's possible then.

However, now that this system has been running I'm pretty jazzed up about setting one up for the newly set up 55g FRAG tank. But it doesn't have a sump. I'm hoping you folks can help me out with experiences you may have had with a Constant Water Change system on a tank without a sump.

I did go check out some of the RC forums on this but my limited search found nothing on point so I thought I'd check with "the locals".

Here's the equipment I'm using for the DT and what I'm looking at for the FRAG tank. All pumps are Spectrapure's.

150DT
Using an RKL with float valves for system shut off if water level rises too high.

Litermeter III
pump A - kalk dosing
pump B - RPM-G6 - Filling
pump C - RPM-G6 - Draining
Spectrapure UPLC-II ATO - also tied into the RKL.


FRAG Tank - proposed

Litermeter III
pump A - Kalk dosing
pump B - WXM-G6 - Filling (this pump has an air pressure float valve that shuts off the LM3 and all pumps if water levels go too high).
pump C - RPM-G6 - Draining

IYO - IYE - Is the WXM-G6 setup reliable enough that I don't need to worry about the limited "room" I have for water level fluctuation in a tank with no sump?

Is there an alternative you see available that would be better?

I'll be setting up an Apex with float valves on the FRAG tank in about a month if all goes according to plan. But "the plan" hasn't proved reliable these last few months!

Thanks in advance AZ reefers!

 

[bugs713]

Awesome!
Gonna have to come over and see this Roy!

 

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

You can use the liter meter to do it. They have directions on how to do it but basically you test run the two pumps to figure out the exact flow. Then just set up the LM to the correct times. One goes from tank to the sewer and the other goes from new seawater to tank. You could also set this up thru an apex.

 

[Weyrman]

You can use the liter meter to do it. They have directions on how to do it but basically you test run the two pumps to figure out the exact flow. Then just set up the LM to the correct times. One goes from tank to the sewer and the other goes from new seawater to tank. You could also set this up thru an apex.

Thanks Ryan. I've calibrated the pumps and have checked out the Spectrapure manual on setup. I'm just a little iffy on the WXM pump being reliable enough without a backup fail safe shut off if the water levels go too high. Call it paranoia if you will.
<O</O
I think I also misstated how the FRAG tank equipment would be set up. The LM3 would be one of the exchange pumps. Not the kalk dosing pump. The WXM would be the kalk dosing pump.

<O</OIn any event if water levels got too high the WXM would theoretically shut down all the pumps connected to the LM3. I'm interested in folk's experience with any issues with the WXM perhaps not working as stated.

I'm not sure I can pull off setting up the Apex before the next few weeks so I'm looking for something that I could be comfortable with (sleep at night) in the interim.

If not I may break down and try and set up my "fail safe" through the Apex sooner than later.

 

[aquainas]

Thanks Ryan. I've calibrated the pumps and have checked out the Spectrapure manual on setup. I'm just a little iffy on the WXM pump being reliable enough without a backup fail safe shut off if the water levels go too high. Call it paranoia if you will.
<o I think I also misstated how the FRAG tank equipment would be set up. The LM3 would be one of the exchange pumps. Not the kalk dosing pump. The WXM would be the kalk dosing pump.

<oIn any event if water levels got too high the WXM would theoretically shut down all the pumps connected to the LM3. I'm interested in folk's experience with any issues with the WXM perhaps not working as stated.

I'm not sure I can pull off setting up the Apex before the next few weeks so I'm looking for something that I could be comfortable with (sleep at night) in the interim.

If not I may break down and try and set up my "fail safe" through the Apex sooner than later.</o

Not really sure why you're "iffy", we're not talking about third world equipment here...lol.
A constant water change is in essence removal and replacement of the same volume of water. Therefore the maximum amount of water that would be put back, would be equal to what is removed (based on proper calibrating and your input for each channel). The LiterMeter is not turning on the pump and then depending on the pressure switch inside the WXM pump to shut it off based on the sensor tube. The sensor tube IS the backup.
To make yourself feel warm and fuzzy ...While the water level is at it's normal level, without water lines connected, set the channel that the WXM pump is plugged in to "On" and plug in the pump. Submerge the sensor tube and note the level where the pump shuts off. Affix the tube slightly higher than this point, and you won't have to worry about flooding the tank with saltwater. Conversely, only insert the drain tube about 1/2" below the water line so you'd never drain your tank and dump RODI, if in the remote event the "drain" pump gets stuck "On". Done!

You can also connect the LiterMeter through a TCM, do the same thing with it's sensor tube since it will kill the LiterMeter entirely as power to the LiterMeter is run through it. http://spectrapure.com/AQUARIUM/LIT...es/LiterMeter-III-Top-off-Control-Module-Gen6

Hope that helps.
Shane.</o

 

[dream54ing]

interested stuff, tagging along!

 

[Weyrman]

Thanks Shane.

Nervous is more like it rather than iffy. If I'm going to be gone for two weeks I'd rather have a back up in place. Even for a top flight system like the Spectrapure Litermeter III and related system pumps. As far as I can tell they're probably the best out there.

If I read the manual correctly the WXM shuts down ALL the pumps on the LM3 if the water level gets too high. Did I misread that?

I was hoping to use the WXM as sort of an ATO in that regard using kalk dosing. But I'm now thinking a separate ATO may be in order.

 

[aquainas]

As mentioned in my post above...The WXM does not shut the LiterMeter down, the pump itself gets shut down in an overflow situation, because it's routinely used as the pump bringing the water "IN" to the aquarium/sump. The TCM module is what's used to kill power to the LiterMeter and all connected pumps.

Don't make me have to use my "fancy" login now

Shane.

 

[Weyrman]

Thanks again Shane. No fancy logins required here!


I didn't see the distinction in your first post regarding how the WXM works.


So the install would be (if I read the response correctly):


WXM - RO\DI kalk dosing. (I'm assuming here that your response, "used as the pump bringing the water "IN" to the aquarium/sump" means the fresh RO\DI water.)
Litermeter pump for out flow of "bad" saltwater.
Pump B RPM for in flow of fresh salt water.


With this scenario I think I see the following. The WXM would shut down RO\DI kalk dosing if evaporation slowed and tank levels raised as a result. The other two pumps would continue running and exchange water in equal amounts and not effect water levels.

 

[aquainas]

No problem Roy!
What you described is fine....BUT!
I referred to the WXM as the pump/channel bringing water "IN" because the pump itself has it's own overfill protection. Therefore if you had say a UPLC-II or some other standalone top-off you would use a WXM as the "new" saltwater "IN" pump/channel and eliminate the need for a TCM. If you intend to use the WXM for top-off/kalk then you would want to ADD a TCM because your "Pump B RPM for in flow of fresh salt water." would have no overflow protection.

Shane.

 

[Weyrman]

No problem Roy!
What you described is fine....BUT!
I referred to the WXM as the pump/channel bringing water "IN" because the pump itself has it's own overfill protection. Therefore if you had say a UPLC-II or some other standalone top-off you would use a WXM as the "new" saltwater "IN" pump/channel and eliminate the need for a TCM. If you intend to use the WXM for top-off/kalk then you would want to ADD a TCM because your "Pump B RPM for in flow of fresh salt water." would have no overflow protection.

Shane.

OK. So I think I may finally have what you're saying.

If I have a water exchange system using two pumps the "incoming pump" should over flow protection such as the WXM.

If I add a dosing pump, say for kalk, then that pump, since it's incoming, should have over flow protection as well.

So for each incoming flow pump there should be some sort of over flow protection. And that could be in some sort of overall set up which might include the TCM, Apex, RKL, or RKE.

If that's the case then the Apex is next on the set up agenda!

 

[aquainas]

Traditionally the WXM is used as the RODI top off pump, so just add a $39 TCM and that will make sure you have protection for the RPM pump bringing the saltwater in.
Or the LiterMeter plugged into an Apex with a break-out box and a float, though not as cost effective unless the LiterMeter is also dosing Kalk in which case you tell the Apex to turn off the LiterMeter outlet IF PH >8.5 or something along those lines. This way you get more out of that single outlet rather than tie it up for an overflow situation that may never happen.

Cheers,
Shane.

 

[Weyrman]

Traditionally the WXM is used as the RODI top off pump, so just add a $39 TCM and that will make sure you have protection for the RPM pump bringing the saltwater in.
Or the LiterMeter plugged into an Apex with a break-out box and a float, though not as cost effective unless the LiterMeter is also dosing Kalk in which case you tell the Apex to turn off the LiterMeter outlet IF PH >8.5 or something along those lines. This way you get more out of that single outlet rather than tie it up for an overflow situation that may never happen.

Cheers,
Shane.

Perfect!

$39 is nothing in the grand sceme of things. And I have 6 float valves for the Apex break-out box. So I'm good to go for a bunch of "unknowns" protection.