controllers?

[devgru]

iphone app is v.cool,too bad i have a blackberry

 

[Harry_Fish]

I have tunze pumps, so I called Neptune....

What they told me was that the Tunze module they have
basically controls it in two states IE: 0 and 75%.

I can do that now with the voltage selector on the bottom
of the Tunze power supply, so why would I buy that???

So for me The RKE does what I need it to Plus since the Lighting
module will ramp up and down it should just be a matter of time
until they have a working Tunze module that does it right.

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14431799#post14431799 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Harry_Fish
I have tunze pumps, so I called Neptune....

What they told me was that the Tunze module they have
basically controls it in two states IE: 0 and 75%.

I can do that now with the voltage selector on the bottom
of the Tunze power supply, so why would I buy that???

So for me The RKE does what I need it to Plus since the Lighting
module will ramp up and down it should just be a matter of time
until they have a working Tunze module that does it right.

Uhh you talked to the wrong guy or he was high.. The Aqua surf does everything the Tunze controller does but more.. Infact Tunze released a new controller that has the same features as the Aqua Surf has had.. You can adjust your Tunze powers 0-100% you can also adjust the pulse within .1 seconds.. You also can have multiple profiles allowing you to run the Pumps at different settings at either different times of day or during different tank conditions. IE if your Ph or orb drops use profile where your pumps pulse faster or the output % is increased. It does anything you could want with a Tunze stream.

Thats my point the AC3 Does more for the same money. Also saying once the RKE has been around awhile they will surpass Neptune is just speculation. The AC3 is expandable also by modules, I've got one. It adds more probes and more digital inputs. I'm sure they could add what ever else they wanted. Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking the RK since I dont own one I have no idea. But on paper I don't see why you would pay more for it or even the same since it has less features. And the fact that its the new guy on the block is a negative to me not a positive. Neptune has stood the test of time and they have released several different controllers and options over the years. Each time getting better. I'm sure when they come up with a AC4 it will offer more features..

BTW I also have an Iphone but I owned the AC3 Before the phone

 

[Harry_Fish]

Can they ramp up from 0-90 over a 60 second period?

 

[devgru]

ok here we go.sorry i couldnt put this in excel or powerpoint etc, so bare with me.ive been trying to compare the AC's and the RKE and this is what ive come up with.

aside from RK being kinda new on the market and the AC being tried and proven here is a basiccomparison of the 3 contollers.

pH/ORP/temp are standard on the 3

pricing---
AC3 $300 pro $500
RKE $300
---winner RKE(altho the price is same for AC3,the AC3pro is $200 more and only adds slightly more expandability/features--read following)

AC3pro adds conductivity/diss oxy(nice bonus)
RKE adds salinity(* with SL2 $80.also adds add'l probe ports)
>>>winner ? AC3pro adds diss oxy-a plus
RKE requires add'l module for salinity

probe expansion--
AC's can add PX1000 for temp/pH/ORP $175
RKE adds SL1 or SL2 $70/$80
>>>winner RKE

buttons/keys---
AC's 3
RKE 11
>>>winner RKE

display---
AC3 2x16 AC3pro 4x20
RKE 128x64
>>>winner RKE

ethernet---
AC's included in units
RKE add'l $120/optinal wireless $?
>>>winner AC

contolled devices---
AC3 24 AC3pro 40
RKE 250
>>>winner RKE

outlet expansion---
AC's DC8 $150
RKE PC4x2 $180
>>>winner AC's

SW inputs on-board---
AC3 2 AC3pro 4
RKE 0
>>>winner AC

add'l inputs---
AC's I/O mudule(6) $40
RKE SL modules(2) $70/$80(but also adds probe ports as well-big plus)
>>>winner RKE

lunar simulator module---
AC's up to 5 LEDs $80
RKE up to 12? $70
>>>winner RKE

wavemaker---
AC#/AC3pro built in/add'l aquasurf(tunze only) $175
RKE built in/? no add'l module
>>>winner ?(both have at least basic wavemaking ability)$175 for aquasurf to control Tunze only seems redundant

dimmable t5's---
AC ?(couldnt find info to support)
RKE req's ALC module ?$(only supports t5 dimmable ballasts)
>>>winner RKE

conclusion.IMO i think that the RKE stands atop as far as expandabilty(250 contolled devices/63 timers/price of modules).i have seen the AC's in setups and have been around for some good amount of years.but having done this comparison im going to be getting a RKE,2-3 PC4's,SL1, and hopefully down the line the ALC(need to find out if my ballasts are dimmable) and SL2 as well.


*note* this is just my personal opinions on winners in section.im not trying to pursuade anyone to either or.if i wanted a proven system it would be the AC.since i want expandability and functionality,im choosing the RKE and keeping my fingers crossed on reliability

 

[Harry_Fish]

devgru,

Thank you for the Info

 

[woodwrangler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14434303#post14434303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by devgru
outlet expansion---
AC's DC8 $150
RKE PC4x2 $180
>>>winner AC's

While the AC may have 8 outlets available compared to the 4 outlets on a RK, both are only rated to 15 total amps. So, when you purchase a second PC4 to equal the 8 outlets, you are now able to have 30 amps available as compared to the 15 on the DC8. (The (2) PC4's would have to be plugged in to separate house circuits)

Another question regarding the outlet strips, how are the DC8's connected to the AC, and at what range? Unless I'm mistaken, the RKM-PC4 can use a bus cable as long as 100' to connect to the main unit?

 

[Harry_Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14435204#post14435204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by woodwrangler
While the AC may have 8 outlets available compared to the 4 outlets on a RK, both are only rated to 15 total amps. So, when you purchase a second PC4 to equal the 8 outlets, you are now able to have 30 amps available as compared to the 15 on the DC8. (The (2) PC4's would have to be plugged in to separate house circuits)

Another question regarding the outlet strips, how are the DC8's connected to the AC, and at what range? Unless I'm mistaken, the RKM-PC4 can use a bus cable as long as 100' to connect to the main unit?

Good Points.

.... I hate that on the Profilux every thing runs back to the head, what a pain.

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14434199#post14434199 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Harry_Fish
Can they ramp up from 0-90 over a 60 second period?

Not sure I've always had mine set to oscillate or make waves. You can adjust the on off down to the .1 second. You can also adjust the output any % you want. Both tunze and neptune recommend you don't go below 30%. Even if you turn your tunze all the way down with the factory power supply it doesn't go below about 30%. You can set the Aquasurf to do it but its suppose to be rough on the pumps.. Any prop pump for that matter.

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14435204#post14435204 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by woodwrangler
While the AC may have 8 outlets available compared to the 4 outlets on a RK, both are only rated to 15 total amps. So, when you purchase a second PC4 to equal the 8 outlets, you are now able to have 30 amps available as compared to the 15 on the DC8. (The (2) PC4's would have to be plugged in to separate house circuits)

Another question regarding the outlet strips, how are the DC8's connected to the AC, and at what range? Unless I'm mistaken, the RKM-PC4 can use a bus cable as long as 100' to connect to the main unit?

You can get DC4 for 120 and a DC2 for 39.00. Both rated for 15amps each This would cost more though. Direct connects and use a 100' cable. If you get over 25-50 you need to use a cable with twisted wires.. Like a network cable

 

[8BALL_99]

The 24 device limit on a AC3 Might be an issue for some people with multiple displays. But I dont' see how it would be a problem for most people. And the fact that the RKE supports 250 is almost useless to most of us. I have a 300, 92 and two 40 frag tanks split into two systems with their own sumps. Both systems have CA reactors, Kalk Stirrers, ATOs, Ozone generators, Heaters, Fans, Lights and Refuge lights. All controlled by two DC8s. I'll admit I wouldn't mind getting another DC8 or DC4 at some point, But I just can't see to many people if any needing much more. You also have to remember the 24 and 40 device limit doesn't include Digital inputs. You can have up to 7 expansion modules with a total of 42 Digital inputs and 16 total probes.

I will give you one thing. My only two real beefs I have with the AC3 is the display and only having 3 buttons. The 3 buttons doesn't really matter to me since I do all my programming from my laptop. But I wish the display had more lines. Since I have two systems it would be nice to see both tanks on one screen without having to hit a button. I also wish the AC had the option to have a remote screen. Since I have an equipment room and my AC3 is mounted in the display room. If I want to check on the tanks and I'm in the equipment room I have to walk into the display room. If all your stuff is stuck under you stand it won't matter.

 

[devgru]

woodwrangler--yes it does help to have 2xpc4's but in order to get the 30amps your suggesting,they would have to be on seperate circuits in the main electric panel.being that code is outlets no more than 12' apart on a wall,the chances of plugging the second pc4 into an outlet not on the same circuit is not good.running individual cuircits from the main(as im doing(4 15a and 1 20a))would solve this problem.

as for your other question.like 8ball_99 states you can use twisted pair(Cat5/5e/6) to allow longer runs from head unit.
look in the Neptune sponsor forum.we tested the maximum length using Cat5e to be just under 100' still producing 100% effectiveness.going over the 100' your % drops about every 15'

as far as the distance for the RKE i only see a bus cable of 50' and not sure what protocol is for it.



8ball_99---altho 24 devices is a good number for most.im just saying having the 'ability' to have 250 is a big plus.i have a 125g DT,110g prop system,x2 20g tanks for breeding,90g softies(cycling) 30gT QT tank and x2 10g(1hospital/1 culture).eventually when i have all the equipment i want for these systems,24 doesnt cut it.40 would be good,but $200 more for the ACIII with less programming/timers/expandablity,the RKE is my choice.If the aquasurf would function on anything besides Tunze,it would sway my decision slightly.

and yes you can have 16 probes with the AC.that would be temp/pH/ORP on 4 tanks plus a conductivity and diss OXY probe.however,the DA site states that the RKE can have more "probes and inputs than any other controller"(direct quote),the total i couldnt locate however.

i havent seen a wavemaker module for the RKE which does bug me.

right at the moment im trying to do a layout as to what im looking to accomplish with monitoring/control of all my tanks which are in 2 different areas of the house.the main issue im trying to automate is my water changes.by programming pumps and float Sw's i want to be able to push 1 button and have it done automatically.

my DT tank is in living room and has a 2'x41/2' closet next to it for equipment.behind this is our master bath so i have a 'wet' wall where i can plumb into cold water supply for RO/DI and has x2 2" drain vents i can plumb water change waste into.im so tired of lugging buckets,rolling out 30' of hose pushing around 32g brute canisters.so far i think i have it layed out pretty good.

my only concern is i cant locate programming/user info for the RKE.
i had already planned programming for a AC unit until i learned about added lines for redundancy and the programming line limit.if there was an upgrade to the AC that allowed more lines of programming that would be another slight sway to a purchase.

 

[devgru]

just found the RK forum...

the RKE can employ 63 modules.that being said you could hook up 63 SL1's for a total of 126 probes.

ACpro can handle 16...not even close

also with 63 modules you can have 126 SW inputs compared to AC's 42.now you cant have 126 probes AND 126 SW's.the system can only control 250...

that leaves room for a LOT of expansion...

 

[binyang]

i have rk2 love it

 

[DaveMorris]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14437713#post14437713 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by devgru

also with 63 modules you can have 126 SW inputs compared to AC's 42.now you cant have 126 probes AND 126 SW's.the system can only control 250...

Actually you can have 126 of each. If you actually hooked up 63 SL1's, that would give you 126 of each. On a more practical point....The maximum recommended overall length of bus cable for the RKE system is 100'. That can be made up of one PC4 hooked up to one head unit 100' apart, or 50 modules hooked up together with 2' bus cables. Obviously what would be more likely is something in between that. The bus cables are 6 pin RJ11 jacks on a non-twisted cable. Bus power and signal goes through that cable. I have been making my own cables to limit overall bus cable length. It is simple and works great. DA also sells several different lengths in addition to the assortment that comes with the different packages.

The bottom line for me is I feel that although the AC3 has some features/capabilities that the RKE does not yet have, the RKE uses a better approach with a modular design. I like how things are broken up into smaller pieces. A module for each need, essentially. Not having probe cables plugging into the head unit allow me to mount it like this:

The nice thing about these debates over which system is better is that DA is watching and that means that future improvements are coming. DA can benefit from whatever short comings the AC3 has and improve upon that. Both systems are excellent ways to help us keep a system beneficial to our inhabitants and help us enjoy this hobby that much more.

 

[Harry_Fish]

Those pics are giving me Controller Envy

 

[8BALL_99]

lol I'd love to see a setup that needed more then 16 probes. If you have even half that many systems you should really have more then one controller anyway. I wouldn't trust that many tanks to a single unit.
Even with the probes attached to the controller you can still mount them with a clean look. My controllers are either mounted on the wall or in utility cabinets I made. Again a ready made Remote display options would be nice.
On the wall

In cabinets

 

[devgru]

very nice setup 8ball.i wish i had a fish 'room'

i probably wouldnt ever need 16 probes anytime soon.for the moment with my setups i would like pH/temp/ORP(display),pH/temp/ORP(prop),temp(QT),temp/pH(90g)

 

[8BALL_99]

Thanks I've only had the Equipment room for a few years. Its been great though. It makes everything so much easier. IMO if I were you I would cut down on the number of systems or water volumes. I have three separate systems now. The idea was to have one system a mixed reef and the other a SPS only system. I thought keeping the SPS away from the other stuff would help them out. After a few years of this I've came to the conclusion it doesn't . The larger water volume system does better period. The same corals grow better in the mixed system then in there own SPS only. I"m probably going to connect them all together and call it a day. It would make life easier on me and I haven't seen any benefit from keeping them separate other then maybe redundancy. But to me the benefits of a single system seem to be the way to go..

 

[devgru]

well its not a fishroom,but by moving the tank to the other side of the room i gain a 2x4' closet directly next to it.

it wil help greatly but having at least a 10x10' room for everything would be best.