Copper and ich question.

[Just Jim]

I lost all my fish due to ich a few months back and have been fallow to restart. I've been doing a ton of reading to make sure no sick fish get into my clean DT.

Qt question. If copper kills ich when it's not on the fish, and the fish shakes off the ich in less than a week, than wouldn't the fish be ich free in less than two weeks? (Yes the tank is dedicated to a copper qt)

 

[HumbleFish]

Different strains, different life cycles. Some lasting longer than others. For example, one study found, "theronts were not released until 72 days after initial tomont formation" (source below). So, if you were to encounter that strain even 4 weeks of copper would not be enough. Which is why it is best to observe for at least another month after copper treatment has finished.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

 

[Just Jim]

Holy shmoly. I'll have to finish that read tomorrow. I'm just being SUPER careful after getting burned. I'm going on my 3rd week of copper and prazipro treatments. No signs, just watching carefully. I had never heard 72 days. That's crazy!

 

[HumbleFish]

Encountering a strain like that is probably very rare. The vast majority of Ich we encounter probably follows the life cycle outlined in the sticky.

 

[Reefahholic]

I'm watching mine for 3 months.

 

[Deinonych]

Encountering a strain like that is probably very rare. The vast majority of Ich we encounter probably follows the life cycle outlined in the sticky.

Yep. The couple of encounters I have had followed it almost exactly...about 2 weeks total life cycle time.

 

[snorvich]

Yep. The couple of encounters I have had followed it almost exactly...about 2 weeks total life cycle time.

In general, that is true. But with different strains, some of which are indifferent to hyposalinity, it is always best to err on the side of caution. Or at least, that is how I feel. Once you have an embedded base of fish you do not want to lose, caution becomes more relevant.

 

[Deinonych]

In general, that is true. But with different strains, some of which are indifferent to hyposalinity, it is always best to err on the side of caution. Or at least, that is how I feel. Once you have an embedded base of fish you do not want to lose, caution becomes more relevant.

Agree 100%. I was just sharing my observations.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I lost all my fish due to ich a few months back and have been fallow to restart. I've been doing a ton of reading to make sure no sick fish get into my clean DT.

Qt question. If copper kills ich when it's not on the fish, and the fish shakes off the ich in less than a week, than wouldn't the fish be ich free in less than two weeks? (Yes the tank is dedicated to a copper qt)

It sounds like you may be thinking that the ich leaving the fish is part of the free swimming phase and should be killed by copper. This is sound logic. But I don't think this is the case; the parasite leaving the fish ( in the protomont stage) has already developed some cyst-like protection and will not be killed by copper at this time. It then spends weeks on the bottom until it releases the next generation. I could be wrong on this, didn't take the time to research it); but I don't think so.

 

[Deinonych]

It sounds like you may be thinking that the ich leaving the fish is part of the free swimming phase and should be killed by copper. This is sound logic. But I don't think this is the case; the parasite leaving the fish ( in the protomont stage) has already developed some cyst-like protection and will not be killed by copper at this time. It then spends weeks on the bottom until it releases the next generation. I could be wrong on this, didn't take the time to research it); but I don't think so.

This is my understanding as well - copper only affects the theront stage, not the protomont. This seems to be the mechanism for most, if not all, treatments for crypto. NFP claims that quinine sulfate affects all stages of the parasite, but I'd like to see some documented evidence of that.

 

[MrTuskfish]

This is my understanding as well - copper only affects the theront stage, not the protomont. This seems to be the mechanism for most, if not all, treatments for crypto. NFP claims that quinine sulfate affects all stages of the parasite, but I'd like to see some documented evidence of that.

That's the big problem with all of the marliia drugs; CP, QS, et al. There is simply no evidence, other than a lot of anecdotal stuff, that shows much of anything. L These are all drugs that have been on the market for years, so they are generic and probably very little financial incentive to do real research on them. I haven't read anything on this, but I suspect a lot of the research on crypto and copper came along with the aquaculture industry growth. Snorvich will correct me if I'm wrong.