Coppersafe & Salifert ammonia test kit

B

b0bab0ey

Moved On
OK, so I'm treating the following fish for Ich w/Coppersafe in a 29g QT:

3" PB Tang
2" Maroon Clown
2" Sixline Wrasse
1 1/2" Domino Damsel (who is in a trap away from the other fish for obvious reasons)

I am running an AC 50 HOB w/a sponge that I seeded in the DT for 3 weeks beforehand. I also am running an AC 402 powerhead with another sponge (unseeded) for addition circulation. Here are my current parameters:

SG: 1.026
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0.25
Copper: 1.5 (it's Coppersafe, thus the higher reading)

According to my Salifert ammonia test kit, my ammonia has been slowly creeping up on me despite this tank was setup less than a week ago with fresh RODI mixed s/w. I have a low bioload in a 29g and I'm also using a seeded sponge. Yesterday the ammonia finally hit 0.25 so I did a 50% WC with RODI mixed s/w. Instant Ocean salt if it matters.

Today I still have an ammonia reading of 0.25. The ammonia badge has always stayed yellow, 0 ammonia. So do you all think I am getting a false positive from the Salifert ammonia test kit due to the interaction with the copper? I've heard of this happening before but have never experienced it for myself. My fish are breathing a little heavy but I can't be 100% certain anymore whether that's due to ammonia or just Ich in the gills.

TIA
 
Btw, I just checked the s/w I used to make the WC and 0 ammonia with Salifert ammonia test kit. So it's not the salt or RODI unit. Also, I've never used anything like Prime or Amquel in this tank so no false pos reading from that.
 
honestly, i think that's a pretty decent load in a 29g, and putting the sponge in the DT for 3 weeks does not mean it will seed with enough bacteria. i think the ammonia is real.

how old is the ammonia badge? they claim to last up to a year but i don't think anyone really knows how long it lasts. i usually replace mine every 6 months.
 
sandwi54 said:
honestly, i think that's a pretty decent load in a 29g, and putting the sponge in the DT for 3 weeks does not mean it will seed with enough bacteria. i think the ammonia is real.

how old is the ammonia badge? they claim to last up to a year but i don't think anyone really knows how long it lasts. i usually replace mine every 6 months.
Click to expand...

Just bought it a few days ago...
 
mmm i don't know then... do you have an API test kit to cross reference? I find reading API's ammonia test kit to be easier to read than salifert's. On API, zero ammonia = purely yellow and any bit of ammonia = green.
 
As you know, the ammonia badge reads free ammonia. But, is your Salifert test measuring total ammonia or free ammonia -- I don't use Salifert, but I think it measures total ammonia. If so, at a ph of 8.2 and temps in the mid-70's (I assume), a 0.25 total ammonia reading would translate into a free ammonia reading of about 0.02, which is right at the "yellow threshold" for the badge, which might explain why the badge is still yellow.
 
MuffsAbby said:
As you know, the ammonia badge reads free ammonia. But, is your Salifert test measuring total ammonia or free ammonia -- I don't use Salifert, but I think it measures total ammonia. If so, at a ph of 8.2 and temps in the mid-70's (I assume), a 0.25 total ammonia reading would translate into a free ammonia reading of about 0.02, which is right at the "yellow threshold" for the badge, which might explain why the badge is still yellow.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. What you said actually makes a lot of sense to me and I think you are correct. Fish are still breathing hard but ate well tonight. I'm going to do another WC before bed. I'm just bummed that the seeded sponge isn't processing the ammonia as well as I thought it would or as well as it has for me in the past. It's failing me just when I need it the most. :(

I think for the future I am going to look into a HOB backpack filter that utilizes bioballs or possibly even a Penguin Bio-Wheel. I guess even a canister filter w/bioballs would work.
 
b0bab0ey said:
I'm just bummed that the seeded sponge isn't processing the ammonia as well as I thought it would or as well as it has for me in the past. It's failing me just when I need it the most.
Click to expand...

I read about your troubles in hvacman's fallow thread...not a good way to end a vacation! It must be very frustrating to spend so much time being cautious, only to have to deal with ich. You have my sympathies.

Just a wild stab in the dark...but perhaps your seeded sponge isn't working as well this time around because your automatic feeder wasn't working for a week or more. In order to populate, the nitrifying bacteria that seed the sponge need ammonia as an energy source. The lack of food (due to your feeder failure), along with the reduced fish waste, would have resulted in a lower-than-normal level of ammonia, which in turn could have resulted in no (or a lower) energy source to populate the bacteria...which might explain why your sponge isn't fully populated yet. Hopefully it will be soon. Good luck!
 
Not a 100 percent sure but many copper medications should not be combined with amquel or Prime as this causes the copper strength to increase and this could be the reason for the fish heavy breathing .
 
There are so many different copper meds and test kits, its hard to remember what works with what. I'd simply call the Coppersafe MFG and ask their tech support. Most good companies can be a real help with stuff like this.
 
MrTuskfish said:
There are so many different copper meds and test kits, its hard to remember what works with what. I'd simply call the Coppersafe MFG and ask their tech support. Most good companies can be a real help with stuff like this.
Click to expand...

So I finally broke down and called the MFG of Coppersafe. :hmm6: Their contact info is below just in case anyone ever needs it. They confirmed that the chelated copper in Coppersafe can throw an ammonia test off and give a false positive or inaccurate reading. They also confirmed that a "chelated or total copper test kit is required to accurately measure Coppersafe" and therefore Salifert's copper test kit (which I have) isn't a suitable option. They didn't have an alternative they could suggest.

So, can anyone recommend a good chelated or total copper test kit?

Coppersafe
MFG: Sentry AQ
Website: http://www.sentrypetcare.com/
Tech support: 1-800-224-7387 (24 hrs)
 
So at first glance it appears the API copper test kit may be my best option. It claims to measure both "free and chelated copper" and seems to be available at both PetCo & PetSmart. Which is good for me because I live in KC where no one ever QTs or gets Ich, and thus there is no need for copper or copper test kits. :D So I doubt I'd find either at any of the LFSs here.

I have a call into API's customer support to confirm their test kit is indeed compatible with Coppersafe. I will report back to this thread once it has been confirmed.
 
MrTuskfish said:
I'm (almost) sure that SeaChem ammonia tests or badges test free ammonia; regardless of copper type; the badges go bad with time, though. I've used them successfully in my QTs for years. http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html#faq4
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've got one of those and it's never registered any ammonia. I probably would have just dismissed the reading from the Salifert ammonia test kit except all my fish were breathing hard & looking bad. So I did a 50% WC last night and they all seemed fine this morning before I left the house. Of course, now I'm wondering whether it was actually any ammonia or too high a copper level that was causing the heavy breathing. I'm not going to add any more copper to the tank until I get the proper copper test kit.
 
I use the API Copper test kit when using Coppersafe. It's a pretty easy test to use, I target a 2.0 level which is a orange color on the test kit, you will look down through the test vial when reading the test with the bottom of the vial sitting on the white of the test color card. Take your reading at exactly a minute as the test sample color changes fairly quickly (progressively gets darker). Merck also has a seawater copper test kit that you can use. I can't remember ever having a false positive using the API ammonia test kit while using Coppersafe.
 
pencil3 said:
I use the API Copper test kit when using Coppersafe. It's a pretty easy test to use, I target a 2.0 level which is a orange color on the test kit, you will look down through the test vial when reading the test with the bottom of the vial sitting on the white of the test color card. Take your reading at exactly a minute as the test sample color changes fairly quickly (progressively gets darker). Merck also has a seawater copper test kit that you can use. I can't remember ever having a false positive using the API ammonia test kit while using Coppersafe.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this confirmation. I'm having my wife pick me up an API Copper test kit on her way home from work.
 
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