Coral color, kelvin rating, and growth rates
- Thread starter Echidna09
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MCsaxmaster
New member
How do you mean?
Well like I stated above. The same corals under the same conditions ( in the same tank) can have dramatic changes in color when changing bulbs (say from a Ushio 10K to a Aquaconnect 14K) and those changes are pretty predictable. The corals will actually change color, it's not just the appearance of the bulb. Granted without studies to prove this it's not validated scientifically but it's a well known phenomenon with people that predominately keep "SPS".
Chris
Chris
MCsaxmaster
New member
Sure, I have no doubt that the corals can and will change coloration as a response to differences in lighting, but we don't know exactly in what manner they are changing or what is inducing the change. Intensity likely has a lot to do with it, spectrum most likely doesn't. Intensity of UV could be an important factor, but we largely ignore that...
cj
cj
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Every coral will respond differently, and has different priorities as far as which spectrum it will utilize the most. Some shallow water corals, for instance, are red because they want to reflect the red that they dont want or they would be overexposed. Some deepwater corals are red because red cant be seen by fish, and at depths over 15-20m, there is no red light... so red corals look black.
You have to consider that there are two parts to the coral as well w/ regard to light. Some of the light spectrum is important as far as how the coral will grow... used in pure photosynthesis. Other spectrums are important for how the coral's pigments will fill in. A pink poscillipora, for instance, will do very poorly under a radium 20,000K w/ VHO actinics. It needs a little daylight/yellow/red not only to look good, but to be healthy it seems. Having a narrow blue output, while good for many coral's growth, can lead to photoinhibition alot easier. Scientists in Germany (and elsewhere according to Dana Riddle) have found that light sources like T5s and LEDs that are heavily concentrated in the blue spectrum w/ little other spectrums can actually stunt coral growth at much lower PAR levels than if the light was a full spectrum lamp. So there is not one frequency that corals should be raised on. It makes sense, FWIW, since blue light contains more energy than say, red because of the shorter wavelength/higher frequency... why halides lose their output as they get bluer.
UV-A light for instance, while not as harmful as UV-B or deadly like UV-C, has such a higher energy from being a higher frequency that corals can experience photoinhibition under much lower light levels than even blue.
So, the best all around light is still a 'full spectrum' light. Me, I still like my blue... so I combine 10,000Kish halides (ushio 14,000K and G-man 14,500K are my favorites) with blue and actinic T5s. That way, I give my corals every spectrum under the sun, and a heavy dose of daylight.
You have to consider that there are two parts to the coral as well w/ regard to light. Some of the light spectrum is important as far as how the coral will grow... used in pure photosynthesis. Other spectrums are important for how the coral's pigments will fill in. A pink poscillipora, for instance, will do very poorly under a radium 20,000K w/ VHO actinics. It needs a little daylight/yellow/red not only to look good, but to be healthy it seems. Having a narrow blue output, while good for many coral's growth, can lead to photoinhibition alot easier. Scientists in Germany (and elsewhere according to Dana Riddle) have found that light sources like T5s and LEDs that are heavily concentrated in the blue spectrum w/ little other spectrums can actually stunt coral growth at much lower PAR levels than if the light was a full spectrum lamp. So there is not one frequency that corals should be raised on. It makes sense, FWIW, since blue light contains more energy than say, red because of the shorter wavelength/higher frequency... why halides lose their output as they get bluer.
UV-A light for instance, while not as harmful as UV-B or deadly like UV-C, has such a higher energy from being a higher frequency that corals can experience photoinhibition under much lower light levels than even blue.
So, the best all around light is still a 'full spectrum' light. Me, I still like my blue... so I combine 10,000Kish halides (ushio 14,000K and G-man 14,500K are my favorites) with blue and actinic T5s. That way, I give my corals every spectrum under the sun, and a heavy dose of daylight.
glassbox-design
New member
spectrum plays a large role ime. here's some good reading http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/10/aafeature2 i suggest taking time to check out the whole series...it's interesting stuff and goes into detail. it seems dana also believes spectrum plays a large role
Hahn, I believe this is because of the photosynthesis curve. What I remember from biology was that ratios of spectrum matching the photsynthesis curve gave the highest growth per photon.
In a simplified example per the curve you need 10 photons of blue and 4 photons of red to synthesis a molecule sugar ( for arguments sake). If you have 100 photons of blue and 4 photons of red, you still only generate one molecule sugar.
This would explain why a high PAR narrow spectrum has poor growth. This is going back 15 years and I could be wrong.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
No, not really. First, take that 'photosynthesis curve' from terrestrial plants and toss it. It doesnt apply with corals. Each coral has a different 'curve', as well as the ability to adapt that curve to the light available... which makes sense since corals cant always pick where they are going to end up, and their spectrum will vary with regards to depth.
The reason, just like with blue and UV, is that as you go shorter and shorter in wavelength is that the energy increases. Simply put, blue light contains more energy per photon than red.
Different corals respond to different spectrums differently. IME, the best thing to do is provide a full range of light, and the coral can pick & choose which spectrums are best.
The reason, just like with blue and UV, is that as you go shorter and shorter in wavelength is that the energy increases. Simply put, blue light contains more energy per photon than red.
Different corals respond to different spectrums differently. IME, the best thing to do is provide a full range of light, and the coral can pick & choose which spectrums are best.
RiddleLabs
New member
Aloha all,
My 2 cents worth - blue light induces a chemical change in xanthophylls (diadinoxanthin and diadinoxanthin) - see the absorption curve for this pigments in UNESCO's Phytoplankton Pigment book by S. Jefferies.
The more intense the blue light, the more conversion of xanthophylls, which dumps excessive light energy as non-radiant heat. This conversion can be overwhelmed by excessive blue light.
It's not necessarily that blue light is inherently 'bad' - it is when excessive blue radiation overcomes the protective devices offered by xanthophyll photopigments. In other words, 'good photoinhibition' (dynamic) becomes 'bad' chronic photoinhibition.
It doesn't help that even recent literature (Eric B., for example) offers incorrect advice.
Dana
My 2 cents worth - blue light induces a chemical change in xanthophylls (diadinoxanthin and diadinoxanthin) - see the absorption curve for this pigments in UNESCO's Phytoplankton Pigment book by S. Jefferies.
The more intense the blue light, the more conversion of xanthophylls, which dumps excessive light energy as non-radiant heat. This conversion can be overwhelmed by excessive blue light.
It's not necessarily that blue light is inherently 'bad' - it is when excessive blue radiation overcomes the protective devices offered by xanthophyll photopigments. In other words, 'good photoinhibition' (dynamic) becomes 'bad' chronic photoinhibition.
It doesn't help that even recent literature (Eric B., for example) offers incorrect advice.
Dana
dots
Premium Member
http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/s_tyree_060202.html
I am sure you guys have seen this one as well. I had been thinking about this topic recently and looking for some info.
Thanks!!
I am sure you guys have seen this one as well. I had been thinking about this topic recently and looking for some info.
Thanks!!
MCsaxmaster
New member
But Dana, excessive blue light is synonamous with excessively intense light, no?
Also, help me if you would to understand how that should relate to the production of coral pigments? I mean, saturated photosynthesis using white light vs. saturated using white light that is heavier on the blue end gets to the same result in terms of photosynthesis. I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.
cj
Also, help me if you would to understand how that should relate to the production of coral pigments? I mean, saturated photosynthesis using white light vs. saturated using white light that is heavier on the blue end gets to the same result in terms of photosynthesis. I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.
cj
RiddleLabs
New member
Aloha CJ,
>>But Dana, excessive blue light is synonamous with excessively intense light, no?<<
Hmmm… No. Warmer color (red for example) is associated with the spectral signature of shallow depths (along with other wavelengths of course) where light is most intense on real reefs.
>>Also, help me if you would to understand how that should relate to the production of coral pigments? I mean, saturated photosynthesis using white light vs. saturated using white light that is heavier on the blue end gets to the same result in terms of photosynthesis. I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.<<
Are we talking about the protective xanthophylls? Fluorescence? Chromoproteins?
The ‘Coral Coloration’ series is over 250 pages now, so please help me out by being a tad more specific.
Thanks,
Dana
>>But Dana, excessive blue light is synonamous with excessively intense light, no?<<
Hmmm… No. Warmer color (red for example) is associated with the spectral signature of shallow depths (along with other wavelengths of course) where light is most intense on real reefs.
>>Also, help me if you would to understand how that should relate to the production of coral pigments? I mean, saturated photosynthesis using white light vs. saturated using white light that is heavier on the blue end gets to the same result in terms of photosynthesis. I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.<<
Are we talking about the protective xanthophylls? Fluorescence? Chromoproteins?
The ‘Coral Coloration’ series is over 250 pages now, so please help me out by being a tad more specific.
Thanks,
Dana
MCsaxmaster
New member
Aloha Dana,
Aloha CJ,
>>But Dana, excessive blue light is synonamous with excessively intense light, no?<<
Hmmm… No. Warmer color (red for example) is associated with the spectral signature of shallow depths (along with other wavelengths of course) where light is most intense on real reefs.
Yes, I should have said more clearly what I meant. The effects of intense blue light should be nearly synonamous with the effects of intense while light on photosynthesis. Of course this is not exactly the same as there are issues associated with transfer efficiency to the chla in the centers of photosynthesis of PSII and blue light ends up producing a bit more heat than other, lower wavelenghts, but practically speaking, once a photon is absorbed and transferred to a center of photosynthesis, the initial wavelength of that photon is immaterial.
>>Also, help me if you would to understand how that should relate to the production of coral pigments? I mean, saturated photosynthesis using white light vs. saturated using white light that is heavier on the blue end gets to the same result in terms of photosynthesis. I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.<<
Are we talking about the protective xanthophylls? Fluorescence? Chromoproteins?
The ‘Coral Coloration’ series is over 250 pages now, so please help me out by being a tad more specific.
Thanks,
Dana
Here I mean the production of any colorful coral pigment and mean to exclude zooxanthellae pigments. That would include fluorescent proteins as well as chromoproteins. If these pigments are meant as a sort of sunscreen for the zoox. I see no reason that their production should be substantially different due to a difference in light spectrum (within reason--something analagous to what we see from hobbyist bulbs). If the proteins are not involved in a process like this (e.g., GFP) I see no reason they should be affected by light spectrum whatsoever (excluding UV, for obvious reasons).
Chris
Aloha CJ,
>>But Dana, excessive blue light is synonamous with excessively intense light, no?<<
Hmmm… No. Warmer color (red for example) is associated with the spectral signature of shallow depths (along with other wavelengths of course) where light is most intense on real reefs.
Yes, I should have said more clearly what I meant. The effects of intense blue light should be nearly synonamous with the effects of intense while light on photosynthesis. Of course this is not exactly the same as there are issues associated with transfer efficiency to the chla in the centers of photosynthesis of PSII and blue light ends up producing a bit more heat than other, lower wavelenghts, but practically speaking, once a photon is absorbed and transferred to a center of photosynthesis, the initial wavelength of that photon is immaterial.
>>Also, help me if you would to understand how that should relate to the production of coral pigments? I mean, saturated photosynthesis using white light vs. saturated using white light that is heavier on the blue end gets to the same result in terms of photosynthesis. I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.<<
Are we talking about the protective xanthophylls? Fluorescence? Chromoproteins?
The ‘Coral Coloration’ series is over 250 pages now, so please help me out by being a tad more specific.
Thanks,
Dana
Here I mean the production of any colorful coral pigment and mean to exclude zooxanthellae pigments. That would include fluorescent proteins as well as chromoproteins. If these pigments are meant as a sort of sunscreen for the zoox. I see no reason that their production should be substantially different due to a difference in light spectrum (within reason--something analagous to what we see from hobbyist bulbs). If the proteins are not involved in a process like this (e.g., GFP) I see no reason they should be affected by light spectrum whatsoever (excluding UV, for obvious reasons).
Chris
RiddleLabs
New member
Aloha Chris,
>>The effects of intense blue light should be nearly synonamous with the effects of intense while light on photosynthesis. <<
If by ‘intense’ we mean blue-saturated or blue super-saturated photosynthesis, then yes the resulting photosynthesis should be the same.
>> ….But practically speaking, once a photon is absorbed and transferred to a center of photosynthesis, the initial wavelength of that photon is immaterial.<<
Yes, agreed â€"œ a usable photon is a usable photon to the photosynthetic process. However, the conversion of xanthophylls (the non-photochemical quenching or NPQ) is directly related to wavelength â€"œ the DD/DT cycle is powered by presence or absence of blue wavelengths. So, the dynamic photoinhibition (non-damaging and natural) we see is due to intensity of violet/blue wavelengths. (Xanthophylls do not play a significant part in coral coloration, to my knowledge.)
Those warmer wavelengths â€"œ red â€"œ used in photosynthesis are usually not an issue with corals from deeper depths (or in shaded portions of shallow tidepools). However, strong red light can cause bleaching since many corals have no defense against them (and why should they, since red wavelengths are attenuated rapidly in a water column?).
>>Here I mean the production of any colorful coral pigment and mean to exclude zooxanthellae pigments. That would include fluorescent proteins as well as chromoproteins.<<
OK â€"œ thanks! â€"œ That helps!
>> If these pigments are meant as a sort of sunscreen for the zoox.<<
IMO, that’s a big ‘if’, although Salih’s work strongly suggests Kawaguti’s findings were for the most part correct. I’m not saying Salih is wrong, just that I think other factors should be considered (zooxanthellae clade, effect of temperature on ETR, etc.) before sweeping statements are made.
>>I see no reason that their production should be substantially different due to a difference in light spectrum (within reason--something analagous to what we see from hobbyist bulbs). If the proteins are not involved in a process like this (e.g., GFP) I see no reason they should be affected by light spectrum whatsoever (excluding UV, for obvious reasons).<<
Evidence from the biomedical field *strongly* suggests (ie, proves) certain wavelengths are indeed responsible of production of certain coral pigments (usually violet/blue with some orange colors produced by exposure to green wavelengths). This is not a new concept, after all certain wavelengths are known to induce changes in human skin (UV-B and sunburn); blue light in timing of some corals bio-clocks; flowering of terrestrial plants in response to red light, etc. There is a book written on the various effects of blue light (The Blue Light Syndrome).
Blue light reconfigures the coral pigment protein (cis-, tris- whatever) in an effect called the ‘hula-twist’. There are slight substitutions in the protein’s amino acid makeup. The pigment can become fluorescent or non-fluorescent or change colors upon exposure to the ‘proper’ wavelength(s).
>>I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.<<
The fact is that coral pigments are generated in response to wavelength *and* intensity â€"œ there are just too many biomedical papers to ignore (which confirm the thousands of anecdotal observations by hobbyists). But your question is really one of ‘why’ â€"œ and that is open to speculation and conjecture.
However, years ago, when I was at Aquatic Wildlife, we worked diligently on unlocking the mysteries of coral coloration (color â€"œ like sex â€"œ sells!). The full-spectrum Iwasaki DL lamps were very good at generating color (if intensity was great enough). Problem was â€"œ these lamps are lousy at showcasing most of the fluorescent colors (although the red and blue non-fluorescent chromoproteins really stood out).
So, there are cases where color is generated by full-spectrum lamps. The Iwasakis produce a good amount of blue light, although it is washed out by the yellow-green portion of the spectrum.
Dana
>>The effects of intense blue light should be nearly synonamous with the effects of intense while light on photosynthesis. <<
If by ‘intense’ we mean blue-saturated or blue super-saturated photosynthesis, then yes the resulting photosynthesis should be the same.
>> ….But practically speaking, once a photon is absorbed and transferred to a center of photosynthesis, the initial wavelength of that photon is immaterial.<<
Yes, agreed â€"œ a usable photon is a usable photon to the photosynthetic process. However, the conversion of xanthophylls (the non-photochemical quenching or NPQ) is directly related to wavelength â€"œ the DD/DT cycle is powered by presence or absence of blue wavelengths. So, the dynamic photoinhibition (non-damaging and natural) we see is due to intensity of violet/blue wavelengths. (Xanthophylls do not play a significant part in coral coloration, to my knowledge.)
Those warmer wavelengths â€"œ red â€"œ used in photosynthesis are usually not an issue with corals from deeper depths (or in shaded portions of shallow tidepools). However, strong red light can cause bleaching since many corals have no defense against them (and why should they, since red wavelengths are attenuated rapidly in a water column?).
>>Here I mean the production of any colorful coral pigment and mean to exclude zooxanthellae pigments. That would include fluorescent proteins as well as chromoproteins.<<
OK â€"œ thanks! â€"œ That helps!
>> If these pigments are meant as a sort of sunscreen for the zoox.<<
IMO, that’s a big ‘if’, although Salih’s work strongly suggests Kawaguti’s findings were for the most part correct. I’m not saying Salih is wrong, just that I think other factors should be considered (zooxanthellae clade, effect of temperature on ETR, etc.) before sweeping statements are made.
>>I see no reason that their production should be substantially different due to a difference in light spectrum (within reason--something analagous to what we see from hobbyist bulbs). If the proteins are not involved in a process like this (e.g., GFP) I see no reason they should be affected by light spectrum whatsoever (excluding UV, for obvious reasons).<<
Evidence from the biomedical field *strongly* suggests (ie, proves) certain wavelengths are indeed responsible of production of certain coral pigments (usually violet/blue with some orange colors produced by exposure to green wavelengths). This is not a new concept, after all certain wavelengths are known to induce changes in human skin (UV-B and sunburn); blue light in timing of some corals bio-clocks; flowering of terrestrial plants in response to red light, etc. There is a book written on the various effects of blue light (The Blue Light Syndrome).
Blue light reconfigures the coral pigment protein (cis-, tris- whatever) in an effect called the ‘hula-twist’. There are slight substitutions in the protein’s amino acid makeup. The pigment can become fluorescent or non-fluorescent or change colors upon exposure to the ‘proper’ wavelength(s).
>>I see no reason that the corals should produce more of any given animal pigment in response to increased blue light as compared to bright full-spectrum light.<<
The fact is that coral pigments are generated in response to wavelength *and* intensity â€"œ there are just too many biomedical papers to ignore (which confirm the thousands of anecdotal observations by hobbyists). But your question is really one of ‘why’ â€"œ and that is open to speculation and conjecture.
However, years ago, when I was at Aquatic Wildlife, we worked diligently on unlocking the mysteries of coral coloration (color â€"œ like sex â€"œ sells!). The full-spectrum Iwasaki DL lamps were very good at generating color (if intensity was great enough). Problem was â€"œ these lamps are lousy at showcasing most of the fluorescent colors (although the red and blue non-fluorescent chromoproteins really stood out).
So, there are cases where color is generated by full-spectrum lamps. The Iwasakis produce a good amount of blue light, although it is washed out by the yellow-green portion of the spectrum.
Dana
MCsaxmaster
New member
Hi Dana,
>> If these pigments are meant as a sort of sunscreen for the zoox.<<
IMO, that’s a big ‘if’, although Salih’s work strongly suggests Kawaguti’s findings were for the most part correct. I’m not saying Salih is wrong, just that I think other factors should be considered (zooxanthellae clade, effect of temperature on ETR, etc.) before sweeping statements are made.
Agreed, I do think this is a big if. For instance, I don't think there's any reason to think GFP has anything to do with the fact it interacts with visible light--that's likely just a side effect and has nothing to do with its true function. Some of the GFP-like fluorescent and non-fluorescent proteins...I don't know. I can appreciate what Salih et al., have done, but I'm not entirely convinced they have it figured out just yet.
What about zoox. clade, temp., etc. do you think needs to be considered?
Evidence from the biomedical field *strongly* suggests (ie, proves) certain wavelengths are indeed responsible of production of certain coral pigments (usually violet/blue with some orange colors produced by exposure to green wavelengths).
I'd be most interested to take a look, if you could direct me.
This is not a new concept, after all certain wavelengths are known to induce changes in human skin (UV-B and sunburn); blue light in timing of some corals bio-clocks; flowering of terrestrial plants in response to red light, etc. There is a book written on the various effects of blue light (The Blue Light Syndrome).
Well ya, sure, but that is completely different. The ability to sense light and having different sensitivity in the photoreceptors to different wavelengths does not imply differential production of particular proteins. I don't start tanning if I sit and stare in a blue room instead of a green room
I'll reserve judgement until I see strong evidence one way or another, but to this point I've yet to see any evidence or been able to think of any a priori reason that a difference in light spectrum should cause corals to produce more or less of colorful pigments.
Best,
Chris
>> If these pigments are meant as a sort of sunscreen for the zoox.<<
IMO, that’s a big ‘if’, although Salih’s work strongly suggests Kawaguti’s findings were for the most part correct. I’m not saying Salih is wrong, just that I think other factors should be considered (zooxanthellae clade, effect of temperature on ETR, etc.) before sweeping statements are made.
Agreed, I do think this is a big if. For instance, I don't think there's any reason to think GFP has anything to do with the fact it interacts with visible light--that's likely just a side effect and has nothing to do with its true function. Some of the GFP-like fluorescent and non-fluorescent proteins...I don't know. I can appreciate what Salih et al., have done, but I'm not entirely convinced they have it figured out just yet.
What about zoox. clade, temp., etc. do you think needs to be considered?
Evidence from the biomedical field *strongly* suggests (ie, proves) certain wavelengths are indeed responsible of production of certain coral pigments (usually violet/blue with some orange colors produced by exposure to green wavelengths).
I'd be most interested to take a look, if you could direct me.
This is not a new concept, after all certain wavelengths are known to induce changes in human skin (UV-B and sunburn); blue light in timing of some corals bio-clocks; flowering of terrestrial plants in response to red light, etc. There is a book written on the various effects of blue light (The Blue Light Syndrome).
Well ya, sure, but that is completely different. The ability to sense light and having different sensitivity in the photoreceptors to different wavelengths does not imply differential production of particular proteins. I don't start tanning if I sit and stare in a blue room instead of a green room
I'll reserve judgement until I see strong evidence one way or another, but to this point I've yet to see any evidence or been able to think of any a priori reason that a difference in light spectrum should cause corals to produce more or less of colorful pigments.
Best,
Chris
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Dana, I have a related question...
T5s(or all phosphor bulbs I suppose) and halides can be set up to have the same spectrum. I dont know if you have heard/seen the effects that some T5s have on the corals though.
Its a bit like this... when Home Depot was changing all their halides out for T5s, at the 50/50 point, you could look into the halide section of the store, and things were bright, sure, but 'duller' in a way. When I looked at the T5 lit side, all the colors seemed to 'pop' more, esp the bright orange color on all the racking... almost like with a blacklight... but these are all 3000K and 6500K GE bulbs.
I have observed similar things with T5s in the home reef as well. It seems that there is something in the light spectrum that allows corals to color up better than with halides, even when under lower light levels for some otherwise light-greedy acros. The pigments arent just picked up by the T5s in some way for how I see them, but they change all together. I can get orange whorling cap to color up into a neon red color, and Blue tortuosa to light up this way as well. And it wasnt just because of variation in spectrum. I picked bulbs on both systems that gave the same final spectral output (EVC 20,000K vs. 2x aquablue, 2x blue+, 2x true actinic 03). Others observe this as well, so its a little more than just a 'fluke' it seems. What is this from? Could it be some sort of wavelength (but no halide I have tried seems to be able to do this)? Does it have to do with the inner light producing gasses of the T5s? I can literally grow corals faster and with better coloration with T5s than with halides. I thought that with my new halide + T5 combo, I would get this still, if not more... but this just isnt so. Just wondering if there is some explaination for this.
T5s(or all phosphor bulbs I suppose) and halides can be set up to have the same spectrum. I dont know if you have heard/seen the effects that some T5s have on the corals though.
Its a bit like this... when Home Depot was changing all their halides out for T5s, at the 50/50 point, you could look into the halide section of the store, and things were bright, sure, but 'duller' in a way. When I looked at the T5 lit side, all the colors seemed to 'pop' more, esp the bright orange color on all the racking... almost like with a blacklight... but these are all 3000K and 6500K GE bulbs.
I have observed similar things with T5s in the home reef as well. It seems that there is something in the light spectrum that allows corals to color up better than with halides, even when under lower light levels for some otherwise light-greedy acros. The pigments arent just picked up by the T5s in some way for how I see them, but they change all together. I can get orange whorling cap to color up into a neon red color, and Blue tortuosa to light up this way as well. And it wasnt just because of variation in spectrum. I picked bulbs on both systems that gave the same final spectral output (EVC 20,000K vs. 2x aquablue, 2x blue+, 2x true actinic 03). Others observe this as well, so its a little more than just a 'fluke' it seems. What is this from? Could it be some sort of wavelength (but no halide I have tried seems to be able to do this)? Does it have to do with the inner light producing gasses of the T5s? I can literally grow corals faster and with better coloration with T5s than with halides. I thought that with my new halide + T5 combo, I would get this still, if not more... but this just isnt so. Just wondering if there is some explaination for this.
RiddleLabs
New member
Aloha Chris,
>>What about zoox. clade, temp., etc. do you think needs to be considered?<<
There are other reasons that colorful corals could have a lower electron transport rate (as demonstrated by various researchers).
Fabricius showed that colorful corals retain less heat than colorful ones. Does this play any role at all? No one to my knowledge has connected the dots on this one.
The zooxanthella clade could play a difference - some adjust to light intensity by adjusting their numbers, some adjust the PSU size. Some are heat or bleaching resistant due to the chemical compostion of the thyllakoid membranes. Color might have nothing to do with their photosynthetic capacity.
>>Well ya, sure, but that is completely different. The ability to sense light and having different sensitivity in the photoreceptors to different wavelengths does not imply differential production of particular proteins. I don't start tanning if I sit and stare in a blue room instead of a green room <<
Smarty pants ;-). The point is that spectrum is often an important part of photochemical responses. I don't have time to pick through the references, so I'll cut-and-paste a partial list - there are some real gems buried in the biomedical literature!
>>I'll reserve judgement until I see strong evidence one way or another, but to this point I've yet to see any evidence or been able to think of any a priori reason that a difference in light spectrum should cause corals to produce more or less of colorful pigments. I'd be most interested to take a look, if you could direct me.<<
Here goes:
Ando, R., H. Hama, M. Yamamoto-Hino, H. Mizuno, and A. Miyawaki, 2002. An optical marker based on the UV-induced green-to-red photoconversion of a fluorescent protein. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 99(20):12651-12656.
Ando, R., H. Mizuno and A. Miyawaki, 2004. Regulated fast nucleocytoplasmic shuttling observed by reversible protein highlighting. Science, 306:1370-1373.
Andresen, M., M. Wahl, A. Stiel, F. Gräter, L. Schäfer, S. Trowitzsch, G. Weber, C. Eggeling, H. Grubmüller, S. Hell and S. Jakobs, 205. Structure and mechanism of the reversible photoswitch of a fluorescent protein. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 102, 37:13070-13074.
Apprill, A., 2003. Spectral characteristics and genetic expression of green fluorescent proteins in Hawaiian corals. In: Molecular Biology of Corals: Results of 2002 Edwin W. Pauley Summer Program in Marine Biology, E. Cox and T. Lewis, eds. University of Hawaii HIMB Technical Report No. 43:6-13.
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>>What about zoox. clade, temp., etc. do you think needs to be considered?<<
There are other reasons that colorful corals could have a lower electron transport rate (as demonstrated by various researchers).
Fabricius showed that colorful corals retain less heat than colorful ones. Does this play any role at all? No one to my knowledge has connected the dots on this one.
The zooxanthella clade could play a difference - some adjust to light intensity by adjusting their numbers, some adjust the PSU size. Some are heat or bleaching resistant due to the chemical compostion of the thyllakoid membranes. Color might have nothing to do with their photosynthetic capacity.
>>Well ya, sure, but that is completely different. The ability to sense light and having different sensitivity in the photoreceptors to different wavelengths does not imply differential production of particular proteins. I don't start tanning if I sit and stare in a blue room instead of a green room <<
Smarty pants ;-). The point is that spectrum is often an important part of photochemical responses. I don't have time to pick through the references, so I'll cut-and-paste a partial list - there are some real gems buried in the biomedical literature!
>>I'll reserve judgement until I see strong evidence one way or another, but to this point I've yet to see any evidence or been able to think of any a priori reason that a difference in light spectrum should cause corals to produce more or less of colorful pigments. I'd be most interested to take a look, if you could direct me.<<
Here goes:
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RiddleLabs
New member
Aloha Hahnmeister,
I need to digest your comments before making mine. A two-day business trip to Honolulu really mucks up the important things in life ;-).
Will get back to you Saturday, if not sooner.
Dana
I need to digest your comments before making mine. A two-day business trip to Honolulu really mucks up the important things in life ;-).
Will get back to you Saturday, if not sooner.
Dana
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