vbsaltydog
Member
Perhaps an RC mod or Admin can chime in and answer this?
Coral Growth Rates / Estimates
- Thread starter Tigre9
- Start date
Salamander
Active member
I applaud your efforts and ideas. It would be some great info.
But I think you're thinking too big. IMO it needs to be kept simple. Please don't feel I'm dogging your ideas...I want you to succeed. It would be useful information.
The people you are soliciting info from (most of us) are hobbyists. We don't run our tanks in a laboratory setting and don't use lab grade test kits, nor test every parameter continuously. There is way too much room for variability in the information you seek, not to mention the plethora of other variables we don't or can't account for. The compounding error could result in a pile of useless data.
Before you invest too much time into this, I think it needs to be simplified with as few variables as possible in order to be successful.
I want to see some good info you can gather and I'm willing to contribute more, but I'd like to see your efforts be successful and provide accurate, relevant and useful info on the simplest level.
Again, please don't take my comments as an attack. I want to see it work and hope my comments might help refine your ideas. After all I'm following this thread because I'm interested and would like to see it succeed.
But I think you're thinking too big. IMO it needs to be kept simple. Please don't feel I'm dogging your ideas...I want you to succeed. It would be useful information.
The people you are soliciting info from (most of us) are hobbyists. We don't run our tanks in a laboratory setting and don't use lab grade test kits, nor test every parameter continuously. There is way too much room for variability in the information you seek, not to mention the plethora of other variables we don't or can't account for. The compounding error could result in a pile of useless data.
Before you invest too much time into this, I think it needs to be simplified with as few variables as possible in order to be successful.
I want to see some good info you can gather and I'm willing to contribute more, but I'd like to see your efforts be successful and provide accurate, relevant and useful info on the simplest level.
Again, please don't take my comments as an attack. I want to see it work and hope my comments might help refine your ideas. After all I'm following this thread because I'm interested and would like to see it succeed.
Salamander
Active member
While I think Sanjay's database is great and a wealth of detailed information....Its not nearly as complex as what's proposed here so far.
Tigre9
New member
Great!!!
Great!!!
Really looking forward to the information you will be able to provide, pictures would be great to provide information like placement and locality of the corals next to each other.
Again, I can't wait to hear back. Thanks!
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
Great!!!
Really looking forward to the information you will be able to provide, pictures would be great to provide information like placement and locality of the corals next to each other.
Again, I can't wait to hear back. Thanks!
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
Tigre9
New member
Available Information
Available Information
Well, after several months there has not been much in the way of information from anyone that would help further this post. Therefor I will add what I have found in a simple way through free sources.
I have done some research, a lot of reading and some talking to store owners regarding the availability of growth rates or data. So far it comes down to the fact that the distributors have the information and no one wants to tell. Even people that have replied to this thread have given many reasons it can't be done.....
Well, I would like to start by proving this theory incorrect!
My luck, the "Reef Hobbyist Magazine" (Free) - Second Quarter 2010 / Volumne 4 give the exact information I was looking for right currently (also related to the big picture I presented with this post in the beginning). The article regarding RBTA's and the surgical cloning of the Bubble Tip Anemone was great. It may not tell how long it takes to grow to specific sizes, but it does state that after surgical cloning Day 1 placed in basket, Day 2 (8hrs later) clones opened up, Day 3 cut still visible but healing, and Day 5 almost completely healed. (around 1 week for clone to heal)
As I previously state, I have spoken with several owners and 1 that was cloning without surgical means that have confirmed that they generally heal in about 1 week. The size they grow to relies primarily on freeding and lighting. I have been able to study my GBTA in my 55 propagation tank for this past two weeks, it seems that the 1st week there was more aclimation than any growth and feeding was difficult. The 2nd week I have been able to feed easier with the enriched Brine shrimp (frozen) - rather than the pieces of frozen shrimp from the fridge that the GBTA did not accept the first week.
I believe that I can clone a RBTA in 2 or 4 and heal in a week +, then with in 30 days it would be of good size and health. YouTube has wonderfull video of the process and was part of my inspiration with starting this adventure.
Any stories related to growth and propagation would be welcomed, so that in the future we do not have to spend so much time to maintain our reefs and the overgrowth that may hinder the health of tanks!
Thank You for all that can be provided. :fish1:
Available Information
Well, after several months there has not been much in the way of information from anyone that would help further this post. Therefor I will add what I have found in a simple way through free sources.
I have done some research, a lot of reading and some talking to store owners regarding the availability of growth rates or data. So far it comes down to the fact that the distributors have the information and no one wants to tell. Even people that have replied to this thread have given many reasons it can't be done.....
Well, I would like to start by proving this theory incorrect!
My luck, the "Reef Hobbyist Magazine" (Free) - Second Quarter 2010 / Volumne 4 give the exact information I was looking for right currently (also related to the big picture I presented with this post in the beginning). The article regarding RBTA's and the surgical cloning of the Bubble Tip Anemone was great. It may not tell how long it takes to grow to specific sizes, but it does state that after surgical cloning Day 1 placed in basket, Day 2 (8hrs later) clones opened up, Day 3 cut still visible but healing, and Day 5 almost completely healed. (around 1 week for clone to heal)
As I previously state, I have spoken with several owners and 1 that was cloning without surgical means that have confirmed that they generally heal in about 1 week. The size they grow to relies primarily on freeding and lighting. I have been able to study my GBTA in my 55 propagation tank for this past two weeks, it seems that the 1st week there was more aclimation than any growth and feeding was difficult. The 2nd week I have been able to feed easier with the enriched Brine shrimp (frozen) - rather than the pieces of frozen shrimp from the fridge that the GBTA did not accept the first week.
I believe that I can clone a RBTA in 2 or 4 and heal in a week +, then with in 30 days it would be of good size and health. YouTube has wonderfull video of the process and was part of my inspiration with starting this adventure.
Any stories related to growth and propagation would be welcomed, so that in the future we do not have to spend so much time to maintain our reefs and the overgrowth that may hinder the health of tanks!
Thank You for all that can be provided. :fish1:
Tigre9
New member
More information on Reef Central
More information on Reef Central
I have found the following Post that has some interesting information about growth also. It was under general interest forums and Reef Discussion.
"How to FEED your reef tank so that your corals will really GROW, instead of ho-hum..."
More information on Reef Central
I have found the following Post that has some interesting information about growth also. It was under general interest forums and Reef Discussion.
"How to FEED your reef tank so that your corals will really GROW, instead of ho-hum..."
Ohio
New member
I have just set up a reef tank, about three months old. I have been running t5 ho lights and have not noticed any growth on my corals. I purchased a 250 w mh, which was only on for 4hrs the first day(with screens in place to acclimate) before the light blew, I have already noticed some visible growth. Zoanthia and pulse coral -1 addtl polyp grew on each from just that time frame. Moderate water flow, 1.025, 78f to 80f, bad stuff -including nitrates at zero, both drags are approximately 14in from the light.
I will be following this thread and posting as I have more to add. Unfortunately, I do not have much in my tank yet. I am waiting on the CORA fragswap to load up on frags.
I hope you get more responses, it is very clear that growth is impacted by a wide variety of things. But surely, with the number of users on RC, data can be compiled where parameters, lighting, etc are similar and an average gr can be obtained. Especially since several have voluntered to compile and host.
My opinion -just post what you have and let them determine how/whether to use it.
I am not sure how much help this will be, but I figured I would let you decide whether useful.
I will be following this thread and posting as I have more to add. Unfortunately, I do not have much in my tank yet. I am waiting on the CORA fragswap to load up on frags.
I hope you get more responses, it is very clear that growth is impacted by a wide variety of things. But surely, with the number of users on RC, data can be compiled where parameters, lighting, etc are similar and an average gr can be obtained. Especially since several have voluntered to compile and host.
My opinion -just post what you have and let them determine how/whether to use it.
I am not sure how much help this will be, but I figured I would let you decide whether useful.
Tigre9
New member
All replies welcome!!!
All replies welcome!!!
Thanks for the information you provided, it is all helpfull in helping to complete a lists of general information regarding growth. I actually grew up in Ohio and moved to Tennessee in 1997, maybe I will get back up there sooner or later.
I worked at a local Pet store and took care of the Salt Water fish, there were no corals but I was able to learn alot back then that helped get me started several years ago.
Please post more when available! :wave:
Thanks
All replies welcome!!!
Thanks for the information you provided, it is all helpfull in helping to complete a lists of general information regarding growth. I actually grew up in Ohio and moved to Tennessee in 1997, maybe I will get back up there sooner or later.
I worked at a local Pet store and took care of the Salt Water fish, there were no corals but I was able to learn alot back then that helped get me started several years ago.
Please post more when available! :wave:
Thanks
Swerve's Reef
New member
Coral ID: RED actinodiscus sp.
Coral Size: single polyp 1" diameter
Lighting: low (indirect mh/vho, placed under ledge, par unknown)
Water Flow: medium
Water Parameters: Ca 440, Alk 9, Mg 1300, NO3 0.2, PO4 near zero/undetectable
Growth: None in SIX months
Coral ID: BLUE actinodiscus sp.
Coral Size: single polyp 2" diameter
Lighting: low (indirect mh/vho, placed under ledge, par unknown)
Water Flow: medium
Water Parameters: Ca 440, Alk 9, Mg 1300, NO3 0.2, PO4 near zero/undetectable
Growth: additional 1" to diameter of original polyp in THREE months, pedal lacereration/reproduction has produced 6 new polyps, those 6 are now sized between 1.5" to 3/4" in those same 3 months.
These red and blue mushrooms are within 2 inches of each other in the same location of the tank. This is interesting and why empirical data on growth is a challenging and moving target. I try to understand what differences in my own aquarium could affect growth. Add in other reefer's tanks parameters and their growth rates, and the data becomes very generalized.
I also have two hollywood stunners, one grows fast, the other not so fast. Same location very close to each other, one is horizontal, one vertical. This seems to follow the consensus to the angle for chalices though, the vertically placed coral is the faster growing of the two. This growth difference is likely related to the amount/direction of flow or the angle(=amount) of light.
Regarding the mushrooms, the same exact aquarium and placement in that aquarium, same species, different morphs, and i have totally different growth rates...
I wish there was a way people could follow a recipe, it seems there are variables that I can't for the life of me figure out.
"There's Something in the Water"
Coral Size: single polyp 1" diameter
Lighting: low (indirect mh/vho, placed under ledge, par unknown)
Water Flow: medium
Water Parameters: Ca 440, Alk 9, Mg 1300, NO3 0.2, PO4 near zero/undetectable
Growth: None in SIX months
Coral ID: BLUE actinodiscus sp.
Coral Size: single polyp 2" diameter
Lighting: low (indirect mh/vho, placed under ledge, par unknown)
Water Flow: medium
Water Parameters: Ca 440, Alk 9, Mg 1300, NO3 0.2, PO4 near zero/undetectable
Growth: additional 1" to diameter of original polyp in THREE months, pedal lacereration/reproduction has produced 6 new polyps, those 6 are now sized between 1.5" to 3/4" in those same 3 months.
These red and blue mushrooms are within 2 inches of each other in the same location of the tank. This is interesting and why empirical data on growth is a challenging and moving target. I try to understand what differences in my own aquarium could affect growth. Add in other reefer's tanks parameters and their growth rates, and the data becomes very generalized.
I also have two hollywood stunners, one grows fast, the other not so fast. Same location very close to each other, one is horizontal, one vertical. This seems to follow the consensus to the angle for chalices though, the vertically placed coral is the faster growing of the two. This growth difference is likely related to the amount/direction of flow or the angle(=amount) of light.
Regarding the mushrooms, the same exact aquarium and placement in that aquarium, same species, different morphs, and i have totally different growth rates...
I wish there was a way people could follow a recipe, it seems there are variables that I can't for the life of me figure out.
"There's Something in the Water"
Last edited:
alexandernewell
New member
Its hard to tell the "size" of some things. My rics are small then huge then small then huge-er often. With my duncans size is of little importance. Its the number of heads i care about. Rather have 13 heads in about 4 square inches than 6 heads along a 7 inch branch.
If you include growth through pedal laceration then you need to include growth caused by manually fragging a colony. And now your numbers get way skewed. The people of RC are super helpful and given the lack of responses its probably because most people see how useless their own info will be or they don't know how to answer your query.
As far as the distributers knowing this info. They don't. They might know what to expect in their own system but as far as having anything remotely useful to the home aquarist I highly doubt it.
Further. I think any info from people who have "Slow" growth isn't going to be helpful at all. Its not hard to do things wrong. While it might play a roll in determining an "average" an average is a useless statistic without a standard deviation and several other qualifiers to give it context.
I think the only thing people care about are what makes corals grow faster so maybe you should instead ask people what they did to speed up their coral growth not for a swarm of arbitrary info that cant be compiled and compared in any meaningful way. i.e. apparently Swerve can tell you his nitrates to the the first decimal while the closest most of us can probably tell you would be below 10. The API test isn't very precise.
Duncans: Grew faster when I started hand feeding PE Mysis. Opened more when placed in Indirect lighting.
Ricordea sp.: Fastest growth by manual cutting. Faster size recovery after I began feeding PE Mysis.
If you include growth through pedal laceration then you need to include growth caused by manually fragging a colony. And now your numbers get way skewed. The people of RC are super helpful and given the lack of responses its probably because most people see how useless their own info will be or they don't know how to answer your query.
As far as the distributers knowing this info. They don't. They might know what to expect in their own system but as far as having anything remotely useful to the home aquarist I highly doubt it.
Further. I think any info from people who have "Slow" growth isn't going to be helpful at all. Its not hard to do things wrong. While it might play a roll in determining an "average" an average is a useless statistic without a standard deviation and several other qualifiers to give it context.
I think the only thing people care about are what makes corals grow faster so maybe you should instead ask people what they did to speed up their coral growth not for a swarm of arbitrary info that cant be compiled and compared in any meaningful way. i.e. apparently Swerve can tell you his nitrates to the the first decimal while the closest most of us can probably tell you would be below 10. The API test isn't very precise.
Duncans: Grew faster when I started hand feeding PE Mysis. Opened more when placed in Indirect lighting.
Ricordea sp.: Fastest growth by manual cutting. Faster size recovery after I began feeding PE Mysis.
I will be starting a project shortly similar to this.
I am about to be moving into a new home, and have setup a tank in the new house already. When I transfer everything over to the new tank, I plan to record the size and coloration of each coral I have in addition to the parameters when I transfer them to the tank.
Following that I will record their size and coloration ( documented with a pic ) at 30 day intervals in addition to params and what not.
I have a site setup for this particular project, however with the apparent religious removal of posts with links I can't tell you where it is. BTW that makes very little sense to me, I understand cutting down on spammers, but if it is useful then why remove it? Tons of sites link to RC, how about showing some link love?!
Will post when I complete the move and insert the first snippets of data...
And as far as growth, IME the zoos and palys I have double in size about every 2-4 months depending on exact color.
Duncans have added approx. 15 heads in about 5 months (all small)
Acans have not added heads, but have increased in polyp size by about 25% in 2 months.
Pocillipora has added 3 new 1" branches in 6 months with about 1/2" of growth per old branch.
Plating Monti has grown next to none in 6 months, and a branching monti has almost died and come back 6 times in 6 months :rolleye1:
Hydnophora has not grown noticeably in 5 months.
Tank Params as follows:
SG: 1.024
Temp: 80-night 82-daytime
Amm: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10-20 depending on how close to water change
Phos: undetectable
calc: 440
dkH: 8
Lighting provided by 4-T5 3 geismann aquablue+ and 1 coralife 440nm actinic ( i think... )
Weekly water changes of around 25% (70 gal total system volume)
Reef Crystals salt
I am about to be moving into a new home, and have setup a tank in the new house already. When I transfer everything over to the new tank, I plan to record the size and coloration of each coral I have in addition to the parameters when I transfer them to the tank.
Following that I will record their size and coloration ( documented with a pic ) at 30 day intervals in addition to params and what not.
I have a site setup for this particular project, however with the apparent religious removal of posts with links I can't tell you where it is. BTW that makes very little sense to me, I understand cutting down on spammers, but if it is useful then why remove it? Tons of sites link to RC, how about showing some link love?!
Will post when I complete the move and insert the first snippets of data...
And as far as growth, IME the zoos and palys I have double in size about every 2-4 months depending on exact color.
Duncans have added approx. 15 heads in about 5 months (all small)
Acans have not added heads, but have increased in polyp size by about 25% in 2 months.
Pocillipora has added 3 new 1" branches in 6 months with about 1/2" of growth per old branch.
Plating Monti has grown next to none in 6 months, and a branching monti has almost died and come back 6 times in 6 months :rolleye1:
Hydnophora has not grown noticeably in 5 months.
Tank Params as follows:
SG: 1.024
Temp: 80-night 82-daytime
Amm: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10-20 depending on how close to water change
Phos: undetectable
calc: 440
dkH: 8
Lighting provided by 4-T5 3 geismann aquablue+ and 1 coralife 440nm actinic ( i think... )
Weekly water changes of around 25% (70 gal total system volume)
Reef Crystals salt
StealthRider
In Memoriam
I had my tank at around 8 dkH For around three months without any real growth on my sps coral... as soon as i started keeping it at 9- 10 the coral growth exploded, and fresh cut frags started encrusting. a month later the plugs were all encrusted. I am running 6 t5 bulbs.
prorotifero
New member
this is really truth!!
Perhaps a place to start would be to look at the amount of corals collectors are allowed to harvest each year from a given region. Surely their numbers would be conservative and we would hope they are only allowing the amount to be collected is less than what the scientists who study the health of reefs believe the reef us able to regrow?
I'm interested in knowing for the purpose of determining feasibility of operating a coral farming operation that could support my retail outlet.
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm interested in knowing for the purpose of determining feasibility of operating a coral farming operation that could support my retail outlet.
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
